New Runewarden Setup for Bashing

Corvas

Hi there. I was wondering if anyone could tell me the current situation of runewarden hunting. Im DWC, scimitars, have two arties that I got off of luck from the caches for str and con. Ive spent quite a bit of gold on lessons and have turned in a lot of the arties that I received from the cache for credits for lessons. Im still fairly low level considering I primarily rp and read the helps to situate myself with the game. I was just curious on what my next steps should be for getting set up for optimal bashing.

| Class Skills                                                                |

|   Chivalry                     28%  #######------------------        Gifted |

|   Runelore                    100%  #########################  Transcendent |

|   Weaponmastery               100%  #########################  Transcendent |

| General Skills                                                              |

|   Vision                      100%  #########################  Transcendent |

|   Avoidance                   100%  #########################  Transcendent |

|   Tattoos                       6%  #------------------------         Adept |

|   Survival                     33%  ########-----------------        Expert |

|   Weaponry                    100%  #########################  Transcendent |

|   Riding                      100%  #########################  Transcendent |

|   Seafaring                   100%  #########################  Transcendent |

|   Battlerage                   89%  ######################---      Mythical |

| Mini Skills                                                                 |

|   Constitution                  5%  #------------------------       Capable |

|   Thermology                    0%  -------------------------         Inept |

|   Frost 0% ------------------------- Inept |

|   Antidotes                    18%  ####---------------------       Skilled |

|   Fitness                     100%  #########################  Transcendent |

|   Galvanism                     0%  -------------------------         Inept |

|   Philosophy                    0%  -------------------------         Inept |

| Seafaring Specialisations                                                   |

|   Deckhand                          -------------------------        Rank 0 |

|   Weapons                           #########################        Rank 5 |

|   Helm ------------------------- Rank 0 |

|   Watch                             -------------------------        Rank 0 |

|   Command                           -------------------------        Rank 0 |

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Ive been reading the guides I can to help me out but a lot of em are from 1-2+ years ago so I wanted to ask to see what the current setup. Oh and if someone could point me in the direction on what gear I should have for seahunting if its any different that would be appreciated. Thanks~

Exelethril

I think Chivalry affects your damage, don't quite remember but max that anyways cause you'll need the skills. DWC RW is pretty good for bashing, find areas you can tank/loop like Moghedu/Azdun level 1. Save for health sip ring/regen ring and sketch Uruz if you can't tank.

Also, get a 2nd monitor to watch Netflix and download Keneanung's bashing script to protect your neural integrity

[Deleted User]

Chivalry doesn't affect damage, but yes it's good to have anyway.

Don't go to Moghedu or Azdun, they're not worth it if you're after raw experience. Either get a mount and go up north, or find someone with an agith'maal card (or get your own) and park yourself on Meropis for a few weeks.

Leviticus

Pyori said:

Chivalry doesn't affect damage, but yes it's good to have anyway.

Don't go to Moghedu or Azdun, they're not worth it if you're after raw experience. Either get a mount and go up north, or find someone with an agith'maal card (or get your own) and park yourself on Meropis for a few weeks.

Rognark (or whatever his name is) during the great hunt has proven this to be wrong. All he did was loop Azdun/MoG and was constantly in the top 5. 

[Deleted User]

Leviticus said:

Pyori said:

Chivalry doesn't affect damage, but yes it's good to have anyway.

Don't go to Moghedu or Azdun, they're not worth it if you're after raw experience. Either get a mount and go up north, or find someone with an agith'maal card (or get your own) and park yourself on Meropis for a few weeks.

Rognark (or whatever his name is) during the great hunt has proven this to be wrong. All he did was loop Azdun/MoG and was constantly in the top 5. 

I'm not sure you're aware of how experience works. Mobs with high point value (keepers/knights) does not mean they're going to have the highest experience:time ratio at any given time. Particularly when said areas are always hunted out by others, which drastically lower their experience given.

Thiev had 2000 more points (14535 vs 12288), I'm willing to bet their difference in experience was a lot more than 20% (actual, not literally 20% of a level difference) because he stayed off Prime the entire hunt almost. Penwize had double Roagnak's points. Again, willing to bet he got a lot more than double the exp Roagnak did (comparatively).

Antonius

Great Hunts aren't necessarily indicative of who can earn the most XP per (short) unit of time, anyway. You can place highly even if your points per hour isn't the highest, if you're willing to bash for almost the entire duration of the event.

Ajoc

Roagnak hunts as a Dragon while Penwize is most frequently a Serpent. Taking that into account, anyone should expect a high difference in score. 

Cooper

Dragon bashing feels so freaking slow, I feel bad for anyone who bashes in it. Unless you don't have any arties, then it is okay.

[Deleted User]

Ajoc said:

Roagnak hunts as a Dragon while Penwize is most frequently a Serpent. Taking that into account, anyone should expect a high difference in score. 

Except we weren't talking about score, but exp gained compared to score.

Cooper said:

Dragon bashing feels so freaking slow, I feel bad for anyone who bashes in it. Unless you don't have any arties, then it is okay.

Aint no amount of arties gonna make Depthswalker bashing good Could have like 25str and a level 6 scythe and it'd probably still only barely break even with unartied dragon bashing, if that.

Ajoc

Pyori said:

Aint no amount of arties gonna make Depthswalker bashing good Could have like 25str and a level 6 scythe and it'd probably still only barely break even with unartied dragon bashing, if that.

I hunted to Dragon without artefacts or ever using Terminus for it. The difference is either nonexistent or neglible. This was me being specialised for constitution as well, so my strength was around thirteen.

[Deleted User]

Ajoc said:

Pyori said:

Aint no amount of arties gonna make Depthswalker bashing good Could have like 25str and a level 6 scythe and it'd probably still only barely break even with unartied dragon bashing, if that.

I hunted to Dragon without artefacts or ever using Terminus for it. The difference is either nonexistent or neglible. This was me being specialised for constitution as well, so my strength was around thirteen.

So you're confirming DW is indeed trash. Like everyone already knew.

Ajoc

Pyori said:

So you're confirming DW is indeed trash. Like everyone already knew.

On the contrary, I'm stating it is as good as an unartied Dragon. Just because something is not the absolute best does not make it trash, especially considering most people will never experience hunting as a fully equipped Serpent.

Shirszae

You are both saying the same in different words 

Mathilda

Unenlightened heathens! I bashed like 90% of the Elder talisman set using dragon, and with very light arties. L2 bracelets, +1 con, +1 health regen.

[Deleted User]

Ajoc said:

Pyori said:

So you're confirming DW is indeed trash. Like everyone already knew.

On the contrary, I'm stating it is as good as an unartied Dragon. Just because something is not the absolute best does not make it trash, especially considering most people will never experience hunting as a fully equipped Serpent.

It isn't though. Not even close. Go look at mindshell's thread and you'll see it is significantly worse.

You can see with max arties (and DW has more that it scales with) it's still behind dragon a decent bit... unartied it will be behind a -lot-.

[Deleted User]

Actually went out to do a test just now, using the same mobs he did in his test.

Completely unartied - 12str DW, because str spec DW can't take a hit for shit without arties. Versus 18str Dragon

Dragon Gut

35% - 3.0s bal = 11.66%p/s

DW Reap

17% - 2.1s bal = 8.09%p/s

Yeah it faster hitting but that doesn't mean a lot when you do less than half the damage per hit than Dragon lol. I wonder how awful unartied SnB is, given his artied numbers were barely above that reap number.

Ajoc

Faster hitting is rather important if you remember critical hits are a factor in evening things out. Again, I played that for a year. Anyplace I currently hunt as a Dragon I could clear faster as a Depthswalker, provided I could tank the damage. This means places like Tir Murann, Moghedu, Sirocco, Annwyn, and the Quisalis Den, for reference. 

[Deleted User]

Except it's not that faster hitting, and does a lot lower damage. Critical hits do not even things out in this case.

Also I've been DW (cumulatively) a lot longer than a year, not sure how that's relevant. There's a reason everyone says DW bashing is bad: because it's tried and tested. When you feel like showing actual evidence to the contrary, feel free to.

Ajoc

Let me clarify, then, so you can understand. I hunted for a year as a Depthswalker. I played it for over a year.

[Deleted User]

Congratulations, so did I. Nothing was misunderstood. I did some math for you though, because I have nothing better to do with my time.

Because I didn't want to go out and bash and get numbers to look at, I just got a hit counter from Thiev to theorise with. This is dragon level with a level 3 crit pendant, so the crit amount is skewed a tiny bit.

| Hits : 1266 | Crits: 617 (48.74%) |

|   Critical Data   |
| 2x:  256 (41.49%) |
| 4x:  191 (30.96%) |
| 8x:  84 (13.61%)  |
| 16x: 41 (6.65%)   |
| 32x: 45 (7.29%)   |
| 64x: 0 (0.00%)    |

Looking at raw damage first...

1266 hits would equate to 2658.6 seconds (or 44.3 minutes).
17% per hit on the above target, would be 21522%.

2658.6 / 3 would be 886 hits for Dragon in the same amount of time.
35% per hit would equate to 31010%.

Now factor in crits... That's roughly 30% less attacks as Dragon than as Depthswalker. So 30% less crits would be 432.

2x Crits:
 256 * 34% = 8704%
 179 * 70% = 12530%

4x Crits:
 191 * 68% = 12988%
 133 * 140% = 18620%

8x Crits:
 84 * 136% = 11424%
 58 * 280% = 16240%

16x Crits:
 41 * 272% = 11152%
 28 * 560% = 15680%

32x Crits:
 45 * 544% = 24480% -- Also to keep in mind is that WSCH from DW won't 1 shot a lot of end game mobs, whereas with Dragon it will.
 31 * 1120% = 34720% -- For dragon, even a 16% will kill a lot of things below ~70%

Two things to keep in mind. 1) a WSCH from a DW won't 1 shot the vast majority of end game mobs. It'll barely knock them below half, whereas Dragon it will 1 shot (or at least drop below 10%). 2) Ditto for Annihilatings below ~60% or so.

(429 crits, so close to 432 after rounding)

Non crit:
 (1266-617) * 17% = 11033%
 (886-429) * 35% = 15995%

Total =
 DW: 79781%
 Dragon: 113785%

ETA: This also doesn't factor in balance taken to raze as Depthswalker, whereas Dragon can just blast shields for a slight increase on bal- which also hits harder than gut, and can also crit. Unless you're wasting rage to raze, in which case you're wasting rage, and thus wasting damage.

Yeah I'm calling your bluff, completely unartied a dragon will clear the same amount of things in ~70% of the time. Now, please, show some actual evidence rather than just giving your opinion... An opinion that is conflicting with testing that people have actually gone out and done. How long you played something isn't relevant, when you're claiming what's better. Giving evidence is the only thing that matters, otherwise it's just an opinion.

I'm also calling your bluff on facetanking half of those areas you listed, without having to run at all without artifacts, as Depthswalker. Annwyn lake, maybe. Definitely not keepers, or groups of knights in Mog. Certainly not multiple vertani.

Aegoth

even I hav eto run against multiple mobs in lesser, unless my cape is stacked... and I have every artie in the game

Exelethril

Only siths speak in absolutes

Corvas

Well I appreciate the help guys. Now im just trying to figure out the arties i should invest in as well. 

[Deleted User]

Corvas said:

Well I appreciate the help guys. Now im just trying to figure out the arties i should invest in as well. 

bracelets, sip ring, regen ring (in that order, imo).

Proficy

If your talking about bashing... crit pendant is first..... the earlier you get it the more use it has as long as you keep bashing
They add up over time

Cooper

100% crit pendant first.

Then level 1 bracelets, con artie, sip ring.