What should I do with 6400 retirement credits?

Esmi

Hi all

I haven't played for 10+ years, and a lot has changed! I've been reading help files and the forums and wiki over the past couple of days trying to get a handle on things, but I have a lot of questions.

My main is an Infernal with everything trans, level 3 bracelets, 3 pipes and a trade seal (I have no idea what that does). I have 500 credits, or 700 if I trade in my seal, or 1600 if I trade in my seal and my bracelets.

If I retire I'll get ~2900 retirement credits and if I retire my other IRE characters I'll get another ~3500.

1. Is there any reason not to retire? One alternative would be retiring my other characters, keeping this one and starting a new one with ~3500 credits, but alts don't seem that great now that multiclass is a thing.
2. What classes are best for PvP and bashing on a 6400 credit budget, which is 2700 after transing everything? From reading the forums Runewarden seems like a popular recommendation. I also like Monk, Serpent and Depthswalker, but it seems like skills and classes have changed a lot since I was last active, so my impression of them from way back when probably isn't that accurate - server side curing sounds like it will make Serpent very different to play, for instance, and it seems like everyone is super high level and super artied out these days, which I'm sure makes damage kills harder unless you have lots of arties yourself.
   
3. What's the best way to spend the 6400 credits? Is transing everything worth it or are artifacts more beneficial once you have your class skills? I have a vague notion that it's better to go for offensive stuff to have the ability to get kills against people with lots of arties rather than focusing too much on survivability, but I have no idea how valid that is.
   

Thank you!

Kiet

I'm not being mean but you can easily find the answer to this searching the forums. 6400 retirement credits isn't a lot, and your options are basically gonna be the same as everyone else that's asked this question.

As to question number 1, though, there is a mathematical and logical reason to not retire: You lose half your credits, which would prevent any sane person from doing it except for major reasons like they ruined their character forever by rage quitting every city, insulting every god, spending all their credits on flowerpots, and then spamming public news boards.

Esmi

I've been reading the forums a bunch over the past couple of days. There aren't a lot of recent responses to similar questions, the most recent and relevant ones are around a year old and most of the people asking about what class to play are active and much more familiar with the classes and class balance than I am at the moment, so I feel like I have a valid reason to make a new thread.

6400 credits is the equivalent of ~$1700, which is a lot, and I don't want to waste them. It's also more than most people post about having in similar threads, where the most frequent question seems to be what skills to prioritise when they don't have enough to trans them all.

I laid out the math in my original post, but since I'm not planning on playing the other games where I still have characters, retiring to consolidate my credits on one Achaea character leaves me with ~1100 more credits on the new character than I have at the moment.

Kiet

https://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/397230

https://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/395273

Two threads that cover what you need for arties from the last 6 months. They have barely 2k less credits than you, and they usually ask for future investments, so it's irrelevant. Arties don't change much even in a few years.  I'm aware that you think 6400 credits is a lot, but it's not so much that you'll be getting to the luxury and unusual artefacts. It doesn't even cover all of the usual suggestions once you get classes.

Let's assume you only get the 5 basic skills (tri-trans and avoidance). With the lesson packages, you end up spending about 900 credits on that, if you want to skimp on lessons. Then you add in the usual suspects of soa, level 2 con, level 2 sip, level 2 regen, level 2 bracers, and you're already at 4300+ credits. Then you add wings or a weapon and you're basically out of credits already.

So: your situation is no different than those other people's, you won't get to get all the suggested artefacts with your budget, so you have little room for choice anyway.

Like has been answered repeatedly in these threads, serpent is not particularly good at bashing on low budgets (and yes, this is a low budget for this game). It's easy to find info on how well the other classes bash, and you'll notice every single thread is goign to tell you knights are the best bashers at your level of investment.

Barhardt

Bards bash well around that level of investment too, if you’re not a total telephone pole and can prioritize what you hit. But yeah, start with defensives, Shield(if you can use it), Con1 Reserves2 Sip1 Con2 over just about any offensives. Crit pendant. Wings for self sufficiency, although I for one enjoy being hopelessly lost all the time. Str damage is cheapest, then int, then dex. Everybody loves diadem.

Kiet

Wouldn't recommend bard for pvp at that level of investment, though. It'll do fine in 1v1 and such, but you're missing a lot of utility for groups. It's also not a great class to jump into pvp with if you're lost.

Barhardt

Kiet said:

Wouldn't recommend bard for pvp at that level of investment, though. It'll do fine in 1v1 and such, but you're missing a lot of utility for groups. It's also not a great class to jump into pvp with if you're lost.

Well, shit.

Kiet

I mean, if you like it, go for it! It's not like it's a bad class. It's just overwhelming for a lot of combat newbies I've found. In groups you're lacking things like block and area mobility which artefacts/more lessons can make up for in some way.

Cooper

No reason to be a dick here, Kiet.

6400 credits is plenty to play as any class you'd like and compete at a high level.

Don't pick serpent if you want to both bash and PK at the top level.

Depthswalker is an amazing class and will fit your budget. Any knight class will also be good.

Bard is also great at PK and bashing with that level of investment. 

Kiet

Bard is great at 1v1 at that level, yes, which I said earlier. In groups, a bard with just that investment is either gonna die instantly or very much notice the lack of wings/urn/weapon/mount/whatever else they skimped on to get survivability, while also requiring a much larger time commitment than most other classes. It's bound to lead to frustration, which is why I said probably not if group pvp is your main interest.

That said, that does depend on what level of 'doing good' you want. But a depthswalker with similar investment is a monster in groups without having to sacrifice anything, though their hunting is garbo. A knight class is tanky, very useful, and has all sorts of goodies already built in (block, swiftmount, etc) and can pvp and hunt with even less investment very well.

Nazihk

All those group problems can be solved by getting dragon and just dragoning it up for teams. 

Kiet

True. If you're willing to just bash to dragon first and don't care about involving yourself before that, you can fix a lot of class deficiencies that way.

Reyson

Man, the idea that a character with a retail value of around $1600 is 'lightly artied' is a bit nauseating.

[Deleted User]

Cooper said:

Depthswalker is an amazing class and will fit your budget.

No amount of investment is gonna make Depthswalker good at bashing.

Kyrra

Depthswalker bashing is ridiculously easy, so much so, that I got bored of it.
I did like the crit monkey aspect of it, though.

Kiet

All classes are 'easy' to bash with, but depthswalker is neither particularly tanky nor very high dps, what makes you say that it's particularly easy?

Milabar

Go Paladin to dragon, switch to bard after dragon.

6400 is about 1/3 my retire, and I'm no where close to being fully artied

[Deleted User]

6400cr on top of lvl 80 (or dragon if that's your goal) and no-brainer stuff is more than enough. If you stick with one class to Dragon.

Lvl 100 is 291 credits + 700-ish lessons (counting the starting 180)

Nobrainer is 2000 lessons + 300 credits.

Converting all of those to lessons is 4746 lessons all up. Convert like 1400 of those credits to lessons. That's tri-trans, trans survival/avoidance/fitness/philosophy/constitution/antidotes + some extra tattoo slots (up to like tree or so).

SoA + L2 weapon + Lv1 con/sip/bracelets + wings is 3650 credits.

With like 1400cr leftover on whatever. If you don't need/want L2 weapon, then it's 2200cr leftover. Minus 400 I guess if you want to get RoF.

Esmi

This is some really useful feedback, thank you very much everyone

I like the idea of going for Dragon and it sounds like that's quicker/easier than it used to be with battlerage and all the new zones, so I think I'll aim for that.

Depthswalker seems fun and like it has a lot of strong utility, but except for the one comment in this thread I've only seen it talked about as being bad at bashing, so I think it's probably not my best option unless I switch class after leveling, as Milabar suggests, which is kind of an interesting idea.

I like the knight flavour, but when I was last playing they were seen as some of the weakest classes for PvP, with a few exceptions usually involving crazy fast rapiers. I don't think they had disembowel back then, though, and they definitely didn't have Weaponmastery, so if those have helped and they're strong now that's cool. From reading the forums it sounds like 2H is the most-recommended for bashing. Is that still the case? I also see Runewarden recommended the most when it comes to knights, but I was originally from Shallam and enjoyed that, so Paladin could be fun. Is there a particular reason you'd recommend it over Runewarden, @Milabar?

Bards were new and pretty weak way back when, with triplejab and not much else going for them, but I like their flavour a lot too, so if they're good that's great.

Are artie weapons worth it for Knight or Bard over defensives/miniskills/etc? Soulpiercers were a big deal when I was last playing but I don't know how the removal of forged weapons has changed this. I could do something like 5 Trans skills, 5 Trans miniskills, Bracelets 2, Belt 2, Sip Ring 2, Regen Ring 2, Weapon 3 if it was a 2H or a rapier for Bard.

Nobody has mentioned Monk so far. I've seen them being talked about on the forums, but it usually seems to assume they're fully artied out. They used to be one of the best classes for bashing alongside I think Magi. Is that still the case?

Kiet

Knights are very good at pvp and bashing both, which is why they get recommended so often. Which spec you pick has some influence on that, with sword + shield being pretty bad for bashing.

Bards are very strong at both pvp and bashing, but have the issues I mentioned earlier. You're a first target in most fights as bard, especially if you're a squishy or new one, and the pvp is probably the hardest of any of the classes suggested so far.

IF you're going bard you want shield of absorption as the first defensive artefact, you never skip soa if you can use it at all. For weapons, they're pretty important for both bard and 2h, yes, which is why I said earlier you have to sacrifice either offense, defence, or utility as a bard. Knights are tanky out of the gate in contrast and with 2h you won't be getting a soa. That said, you can get away with lower level arty weapons for both in to extent, though 2h especially benefits a lot from more damage from higher level weapons (and more strength especially).  Paladin and dwb infernal can get away with less strength because of paladin's +2 and both classes having non-damage related instas that are pretty strong. 

Minifie

Wait for starmourn to allow retirement credits :P

[Deleted User]

Esmi said:

Nobody has mentioned Monk so far. I've seen them being talked about on the forums, but it usually seems to assume they're fully artied out. They used to be one of the best classes for bashing alongside I think Magi. Is that still the case?

No. Shikudo is alright, Magi is alright. Tekura is complete ass.

I wouldn't say any of them are even in the top like 7-8 let alone one of the best.

What city you go also influences some of your choices. Priest and Sylvan for instance are both great at bashing without too much investment. They kinda need diadem to be any good in combat though (which is fine since that's less than a level3 weapon). Although Sylvan can't (well, they can, but they shouldn't) use SoA, without buying artifact armour.

Serpent is also quite considerably ahead of any other class in bashing speed, but you kind of need death cape to reach peak effectiveness. All knight specs barring SnB are solid enough at bashing, quite linear at combat though. Jester bashing is decent if you can get a lv2 blackjack as well.

Kiet

Problem with serp is also you have entirely different arties to get for pvp/bashing, which adds to cost if you wanna do both.

That is a good point with priest/sylvan though, sylvan especially is really good at bashing, solo, and group combat and only needs the diadem basically so everything else is a bonus. Also has a ton of utility baked in.

Is druid still garbage at bashing by the way?

Antonius

The other problem with Serpent is that it costs a fucking fortune. You have to maximise dexterity - and buy an artefact lash - for the DPS to be anything worth raving about, which means you have almost no health unless you can also afford to spend a ton of credits on tanking arties to balance it out. I doubt you can make Serpent good on a budget of 6,400 credits when you have to also Trans skills.

[Deleted User]

To clarify, I was in no way saying 6400 was enough for bashing "efficiently" as Serpent.

He asked about Serpent, so I included that in my response. You can "make it work" with just lv1s / lash and cape (which would fall into the alloted credit amount I specified) If you can find one ... But yeah, it'll still be rough at the high end areas. Compared to any of the other listed classes.

And yeah, needing an entirely different weapon for pvp / bashing is another turn off.

Kiet said:

Is druid still garbage at bashing by the way?

Don't think it's "garbage" but it's still not stellar, either. Probably in the same camp as Shikudo.

Atalkez

DW isn’t in the top tier of bashing, but it’s not exactly terrible either. I would say all of the utility and PvP potential outweighs the small negative of the bashing. You have a numb ability, fulcrum which is raido if you’re hurting, a health restore ability, plus if you get attacked, you’re in a class you can defend yourself with. Displace is leap on eq, can use that in place of getting greaves as well.

[Deleted User]

Atalkez said:

DW isn’t in the top tier of bashing, but it’s not exactly terrible either. I would say all of the utility and PvP potential outweighs the small negative of the bashing. You have a numb ability, fulcrum which is raido if you’re hurting, a health restore ability, plus if you get attacked, you’re in a class you can defend yourself with. Displace is leap on eq, can use that in place of getting greaves as well.

It... Is terrible bashing, though...

Defensive ability for bashing doesn't really mean much, when you're in the 'terrible tier' - Legit the only thing it's better than DPS-wise after the Knight 'fixes' is SnB. And even then it's not that much higher than Longsword SnB lol. I think after the slight ELord buffs, even Air Lord is higher dps than it now. Kill speed is what you shoot for, and DW just doesn't have it.

Tekura monk is still tanky as hell for bashing... But its DPS is beyond god-awful that it's literally not worth using. Penwize ditched it entirely when the changes went live, and I think even Jhui uses knight / dragon when he goes bashing. Mind crush with full int/dragon is supposedly okay, but like... Why bother when you can just swap to Shikudo and be better in every aspect including bashing.

Sure DW can defend itself if it gets attacked but... So can pretty much every class if they're paying attention lol.

Tesha

Nevermind, you got some good advice. Ignore the nitpicking. Welcome @Esmi!