occultist vs apostate

Akkarrin

Hi,

I would like to ask about differences about these two classes as I am not sure which to pick.
- which is better at 1v1 and which at group fighting ?
- which one has more fighting options. is one of them harder to master but with better benefits due to that ?
- how do their summons work ? do they attack on their own ? do I need to command them to attack ? how many can I have?
- pros and cons of both classes

Thanks for help

Kiet

Occultist is by far the best group fighter, because it's basically the best group class in the game. That said, 1v1, they have a very linear offense that's nonetheless effective.

Apostate is very good in groups anyway, it's just that it's hard to compare to occultist. Apostate 1v1 is a lot less linear, in theory, though you'll usually be locking in some way. Apostate is more complex a class, one on one, and generally offers more options, but that'll depend of course on nerfs and buffs and so on. Still, Apostate makes a lot more decisions.

Occultist entities need to be commanded to attack each time. You get to command one entity every ~2s depending on your intelligence. Each of them does basically one specific effect when you tell it to, most of them giving affs.  You can have every occultist entity out at once, but it just means you get to pick which one you use each 'turn.'

Apostate entities differ from each other. Bloodworms, fiend, nightmare, and daemonite all attack on their own once commanded to/you enemy the person until they fade away, but you can only have one out of the latter three at a time. They're also bound to rooms instead of following you around. Your daegger is a living weapon you can tell to levitate/attack/impale people, and you can use it for the timed finisher you have, too.

The Baalzadeen is the most important Apostate entity, and that one follows you around and provides a variety of effects. The most important in 1v1 is syphoning your affs, definitely, but it can also beckon enemies, buff your allies, make you temporarily immune to damage, and a whole lot of other utility.

Akkarrin

what makes occultist a great group fighter ?

Kiet

Doppleganger lets them do a ridiculous amount of things at range, tarot is great utility both offensive and defensive, they can do a lot of damage to single targets or to the entire room (including your allies lol), they can go with affliction strategies, they can infiltrate, they have hinder that follows them (not as good as apostate's room hinder in a group, but it works in a pinch).

Akkarrin

which races are best for both classes ?

Elisella

For PVP minmaxing, Apostate doesn't really scale well off of Intelligence, so you'll want Dwarf/Tash'la. Occultist's entity balance is dependent on Intelligence and caps at 16, so likely Grook/Siren.

For hunting, go constitution spec as both. Apostate is overall tankier, Occultist has more utility and has Priestess tarot/Arctar for emergencies.

Cooper

I think going con spec for hunting is a mistake. Apostates are fairly tanky and don't need that much con, and would be better off going a mix of int/con for bashing.

For PVP, you'll definitely want to go con spec.

Telinus

Elisella said:

For PVP minmaxing, Apostate doesn't really scale well off of Intelligence, so you'll want Dwarf/Tash'la. Occultist's entity balance is dependent on Intelligence and caps at 16, so likely Grook/Siren.

For hunting, go constitution spec as both. Apostate is overall tankier, Occultist has more utility and has Priestess tarot/Arctar for emergencies.

I think the int cap is 17 (grook scholar + intelligence trait)

Utianima

Telinus said:

Elisella said:

For PVP minmaxing, Apostate doesn't really scale well off of Intelligence, so you'll want Dwarf/Tash'la. Occultist's entity balance is dependent on Intelligence and caps at 16, so likely Grook/Siren.

For hunting, go constitution spec as both. Apostate is overall tankier, Occultist has more utility and has Priestess tarot/Arctar for emergencies.

I think the int cap is 17 (grook scholar + intelligence trait)

Grook Scholar is 15 int, which would make that 16 and not 17. Would still be nice to know what cap is. @Sena perhaps?

Minifie

Utianima said:

Telinus said:

Elisella said:

For PVP minmaxing, Apostate doesn't really scale well off of Intelligence, so you'll want Dwarf/Tash'la. Occultist's entity balance is dependent on Intelligence and caps at 16, so likely Grook/Siren.

For hunting, go constitution spec as both. Apostate is overall tankier, Occultist has more utility and has Priestess tarot/Arctar for emergencies.

I think the int cap is 17 (grook scholar + intelligence trait)

Grook Scholar is 15 int, which would make that 16 and not 17. Would still be nice to know what cap is. @Sena perhaps?

16 iirc is your target as occie for PvP.

Sobriquet

I was told 17 int is Ent speed cap. 

Sena

Utianima said:

@Sena perhaps?

I've never really looked at the details of the occultist changes, I don't know where/what the speed cap is.

Driden

Grook scholar, eg gem 17 int is indeed the speed cap. That being said I often run as horkval commander 16 int and the difference is only really noticeable on paper. 

Utianima

Thanks all!

[Deleted User]

From Seragorn's (and I think Zulah's) testing, there isn't a cap on ent speed. It just runs into significant diminishing returns, that it's generally not worth it to go past 17.

Devran

Pyori said:

From Seragorn's (and I think Zulah's) testing, there isn't a cap on ent speed. It just runs into significant diminishing returns, that it's generally not worth it to go past 17.

Unless you want more damage.