First off I want to definitely thank @Dunn @Morthif @Hirst
and some others for answering my questions in the newbie/ooc question clan and have been very patient with my questions throughout their wars. I do, though, want some opinions in regards to the Jester class. I've heard a great deal of varying opinions about the class as a whole, and while I could admit not being scared off of the class I would probably be lying.
the flavour and idea of Jester. Being a discount Harlene or Joker is cool, and no one is forcing me to ride a giraffe. I could be a very serious Jester with a nail protruding beat stick that violently baps people on their noses!
But while the flavour and RP of Jester is nice, I do have an interest in coding the 1v1 aspects for what its worth. I'm 100% going to take part in groups and have heard pretty terrible things about Jester in both fields.
Is worse than Shaman because Shaman can afflict with curses, and rez with their puppets.
Will primarily be a bomber in line of sight fights, but everyone else can bomb too.
+ Also you will be violently targetted if people notice you bombing.
Your melee is limited to hangedman and aeon alternating, because bop and jack in the box are pretty useless.
The lack of assist experience and the lack of kill pressure means you will likely always be losing experience in fights.
Your room hinder hits everyone. Peels and rubble dont really offer anything constructive.
Your only form of raze can hurt your allies (in the one in one hundred chance)
The cost to fund commodities for bombs, cards for tarots, and commodities for puppets is hard on a newbie. (I am level 61 right now)
You are really squishy and people grudge against Jesters.PROS:
Empress, Fool, Priestess, Magician are all pretty good to use on allies.
Star replaces a need for a bow and meteor arrows.
Somersault is a life saver.
Your bombs wont fizzle.
You can arrow catch.
Single Combat Jester:CONS:
No one wants to fight a (good) Jester.
Everyone wants to pick on (a bad) Jester.
Fashioning is boring and very slow.
The combat is very gimmicky.
The best way to combat is juggle throw, aeon tarot, suicide mouse. (Con?) This is stopped by shield and can use up your three mice.
The code ceiling is stupidly high.
There are no Jester mains. Anyone who pocket Jesters doesnt tend to linger as one and only uses it to make bombs.
Timers on bombs can mess up your set ups and waste a bomb.
If you go fashion route anyone who is smart will non stop diagnose until you re-enter room.
If you aren't good enough at the juggling route your endurance will flatline or people will get bored of 'Shield Touch Sim 2018'PROS:
The combat is very gimmicky.
The best way to combat is juggle throw, aeon tarot, suicide mouse. (Pro?)
You have some of the fastest affliction burst in the game done right.
Jumping someone can be incredibly fast and efficient.
Proper management of both puppetry and pranks can result in unstoppable (?) kills.
Death Tarot is pretty funny.
Please keep in mind I am very new to Jester, and am only level 61 so far. I am not tri trans, I am not even Logosian, I have just been asking about Jester because I'm a retiree.
These are only the things I have heard, and I have not put my retirement credits or the no-brainer lessons and credits into Jester yet. Apparently this class is a newbie killer, and can become incredibly demotivating, and until the class is updated it's not a great first class?
I know people will always say 'Go whatever class you want to be, and <cityname here> will make it work when you raid with them.' And I do want to be Jester, and I do think it'd be cool for Ashtan to have their own battle Jester whenever I can manage to gain some levels, but I just feel like maybe it's a bad move to invest into Jester right now and maybe I should play another class until I'm dragon?
Can anyone confirm? Can anyone add their opinion or add to my list of Pros/Cons that I've recorded? Am I entirely wrong about Jester?
On the brighter side, the RP is cool, the hunting feels pretty decent, and the Savants seem like a great fit for a Jester!
It's the alpha support class, but mainly becauseof tarot, which Occultist also has and they're amazing. Notable exception were Puppet Summon/Travel, which Shaman also has. (Nerfed to respect monolith?)
The single best group offensive ability for Jester is Mickey which is finite and costs gold for some reason, but Serpent does so much better with scytherus.
On the flip side, though, I'd never complain about having a Jester on my team in a group fight. It can definitely pull its own weight. You have puppet leech for extra makeup xp if you have allies who hunt a lot and are willing to let you leech and once you're Dragon xp and xp loss are inconsequential and you really won't have to worry about it. So unless you're competitive about kill-death ratio Jester shouldn't be too bad in group once you make Dragon.
Jester 1v1 is also absolutely viable if you want to do it. It does have the cons of potentially being really annoying to fight against and higher scripting burden/complexity if those are deal breakers for you, but it isn't a class where if you're fine with these things I'd say "Never play that class" because it's quite strong in both group and 1v1 regardless. Personally, I do find Puppetry boring, so it does somewhat depend on your preference.
The more I've played it recently the more I realise the fashion mechanic is horribly outdated, just hoping Gallowshumour will change that although getting fed up waiting.
Just please don't change the flavour, I love Jesters.
Jester is a lot fun, but you'll pull your hair out and sob in a corner on the days when everything just goes wrong, because of a slight error in time that crumbles what you've prepped or planned.
Plus you don't need the jester class to portray a jester character.
Fashioning used to be something fun because it took forever but it also lasted a long time. Obviously that led to griefiness but it also meant that you were ready for the next fight if you didn't use up all your fashions. It was more like having truenames and shadows (except stronger obv) rather than prepping limbs.
The minute they made fashions decay as fast as they do now without actually making it any easier to get them for jesters is when they started their decline, imo. Sure, they got by on bomb tricks and juggling, too, but that was like only half the class and a lot of that got nerfed hard.
Shaman got to make up for it by being able to fashion much faster and for having a more consistently solid offense both with and without fashions. Neither class needs fashions to pk a random guy you outskill by a lot, but shaman's a lot more dangerous without the doll and can get the doll in half the time when it needs it. They've also gotten a lot of new toys in vodun and spiritlore and curse interaction, and jester really hasn't.
It used to be that jester was one of the most uniquely powerful classes in that it offered a million strats back in the day when most classes were way simpler and had less options. These days, though, a vast majority of classes offer a lot of offensive options, and shaman being one of the most varied competes directly with jester.
I agree with Farrah that it's not like it's 'bad' to have one in a group, but most classes aren't outright bad to have. It's just that if someone asked me if they should swap between jester and depthswalker if they multiclassed I'm almost always going to say depthswalker (which, to be fair, happens with most classes, so that might be more a DW issue).
class wise I’d go shaman >>>> dwalker for factions that don’t allow occie, and occie > shaman >>>>> dwalker. All three classes have solid 1v1 routes, great group utility and low barrier to entry costs (occie may be most expensive since you want 16 int softcap if my information is correct, @calira can confirm).
personally, class 1 is always my RP class, while I make use of others, minifie is a damned necromancer knight, her falcon the only vestige of her past life, so i equally balance class fun and mechanics, but YMMV.
That said Occie is still good, but it's def not better than either of those 2.
If hunting is put into the equation as well, I'd go Shaman... Fuck Depthswalker if you don't have Dragon already to hunt with.
1v1 it's pitiful really. It has various tricks it can pull out which are gimmicky and will fail on most people in the know, a fast route with daggers that is easily stopped by touching shield with little recourse for the Jester, and a slower route using puppetry which is so slow you're likely to get prepped and killed before you get very far with fashioning, and if you survive are really close to being prepped again.
Group.. still good support as always.
I wouldn't invest into Jester if you're starting out and don't particularly have any sentiments with the class until it gets some TLC or if you feel like holding out for that TLC. Save yourself some headache, especially being new to Achaea.. a lot of things can go wrong with Jester and make you think you suck when it's really just Jester being difficult. I'd not really ever recommend it to a newcomer.
Downside: You need to be able to code WELL to get into serious 1v1
Upkeeping all your tarot and pranks and puppet stuff is EXPENSIVE, especially because axes and daggers drcay, so do venom vials
Puppetry is hard to learn how to implement because you have to hit and run a lot
Suicidemice are tricky to figure out, so is bomb timing
Bashing is good
Great for group combat, really so
Super fast affliction rate with nimble trait, enough to lock easily it's just super hard to code because you throw so fast affliction tracking can't keep up the speed and so you double hit a lot
Fun skills, lots of variety, lots of crazy
If I wasn't such a bad coder on limited game time I would have stuck it out.
I think a lot of people just try and use it as a crutch to get the class buffed / changed in a way that lets them put lower amounts of effort in -(see: some of the recent classleads)- and still be able to kill people.
The only person I see who lauds Jester as arguably the best class doesn't fight, doesn't participate in raids and appears to go purely on theory. I respect that person's theory knowledge massively but it's very different to fighting with it 24/7.
It's not like there's not a bunch of extremely good fighters fighting that it sucks, and that they're somehow all missing the class's potential. It's just that that potential isn't particularly higher than most of the other classes.
The flavor is terrible. Banana peels for movement hinder,goddamn balloons for mobility, bopping things to death, fishing for mice with cheese on a string, a shieldbreaker that's "lol I tell a joke so bad they have to hit me". It's awful.
It doesn't matter if you think you can be a badass joker with a nailbat, everybody is going to see you as a stupid clown bopping things on the head.
And everybody hates clowns.
And @Nazihk same reason Mizik can't be a Bard. Or Penwize. Epeen > damage.