Room Hinder Proc Rates

Armali

Gravehands: 66%, 1s knock
BRS: 66%, 1s knock
Wildgrowth: 66%, 1s knock
Tentacles: 66%, 1s knock
Torso: 66%, 1s knock

Distort: 50% at 0 age, 10% at 1000 age, 2.5s knock

I did at least 5000 trials with each hinder. I think Distort is bugged.

Kiet

No wonder distort seems so obnoxious

Antonius

Kiet said:

No wonder distort seems so obnoxious

Is this some odd meaning of obnoxious? It's worse than every other room hinder.

Kiet

2.5s balance knock is far superior when it actually procs, though?

I'm pretty sure the % is meant to be lower, like every other DW ability is meant to be lesser than the original. I doubt the 2.5s knock is intentional, and if it is I'm not sure why it'd be there.

Farrah

Antonius said:

Kiet said:

No wonder distort seems so obnoxious

Is this some odd meaning of obnoxious? It's worse than every other room hinder.

Not exactly. Much bigger balance knock.

I don't think it's meant to be worse at 0 age @Kiet . Momentum classes have to kill too.

Jarrod

Pinshot numbers? Feelin hindered out in the cold...

Antonius

Kiet said:

2.5s balance knock is far superior when it actually procs, though?

I'm pretty sure the % is meant to be lower, like every other DW ability is meant to be lesser than the original. I doubt the 2.5s knock is intentional, and if it is I'm not sure why it'd be there.

Oh right, forgot it had the larger balance knock (though I doubt that survives classleads if anybody brings it up).

Kiet

Farrah said:

Antonius said:

Kiet said:

No wonder distort seems so obnoxious

Is this some odd meaning of obnoxious? It's worse than every other room hinder.

Not exactly. Much bigger balance knock.

I don't think it's meant to be worse at 0 age @Kiet . Momentum classes have to kill too.

I'm not sure, it fits the design of all their other abilities, and they have preempt as a secondary choice (which has its own issues obv but still). The issue is if you make it as good 1v1 you make it as good in groups too, so idk how you'd balance that.

Atalkez

I don't see why it should be 50% and the others be 66%. Either they all should be 50%, or they all should be 66%. The balance knock should be the same, as well. Any argument you make to have them be 50% or 66% applies to all of the momentum classes equally. DW doesn't need to be worse for arbitrary reasons.

Kiet

DW is worse by design in almost all the group utility it copies from other classes, otherwise it destroys the other classes' identities even harder than it already does.

If you can think of a way to make its hinder the same in 1v1 but worse in groups I'm all ears.

Lenn

Kiet said:

If you can think of a way to make its hinder the same in 1v1 but worse in groups I'm all ears.

Add a separate single-target mode? It would do exactly what you're asking for.

Dupre

Aeonics

-------
* BOOSTED DILATION now ticks faster.

* Reduced the balance knock from hitting DISTORTION when trying to move to be in

line with other room hinders.

Sounds like bug.

Armali

It won't let me edit so here's combined, +pinshot.

Gravehands: 66%, 1s knock
BRS: 66%, 1s knock
Wildgrowth: 66%, 1s knock
Tentacles: 66%, 1s knock
Torso: 66%, 1s knock

Pinshot: 50%, 1s knock
Distort: 50% at 0 age, 10% at 1000 age, 2.5s knock

I can't reliably test Isaz with my method, nor Peels. Peels however, had roughly a 33% proc rate out of a few hundred trials.

CLASSLEADS 9 implies Distort bal knock should've been reduced, so I suspect it's a bug that it's not.

Atalkez

Kiet said:

DW is worse by design in almost all the group utility it copies from other classes, otherwise it destroys the other classes' identities even harder than it already does.

If you can think of a way to make its hinder the same in 1v1 but worse in groups I'm all ears.

This is a silly stance to take. The class doesn’t destroy any classes identity. There’s no reason to make their room hinder worse than the others, 1v1 or group, imo.

Kiet

considering the amount of people I know quit priest or apostate (or jester if I knew any jesters probably, usually it's a reason to not go jester at all instead) for dw cause it does their job in groups better....................

Farrah

Distort is not comparable to Piety or Gravehands in group combat because it does not last as long out of room. It's meant to be worse in that regard, but I doubt it's meant to be worse in base proc rate. It's also already worse in proc rate once you have age built up. So that's two ways it is worse. Lots of classes have basic in room hinder at 66%. That's not really some major group combat strength on its own. It's only more "special" when it can be placed in multiple rooms, and distort can't nearly as well as gravehands or piety.

Armali

Gravehands: 66%, 1s knock
Piety: 66%, 1s knock
BRS: 66%, 1s knock
Wildgrowth: 66%, 1s knock
Tentacles: 66%, 1s knock
Torso: 66%, 1s knock

Pinshot: 50%, 1s knock
Distort: 50% at 0 age, 10% at 1000 age, 2.5s knock

Puxi

Atalkez said:

Kiet said:

DW is worse by design in almost all the group utility it copies from other classes, otherwise it destroys the other classes' identities even harder than it already does.

If you can think of a way to make its hinder the same in 1v1 but worse in groups I'm all ears.

This is a silly stance to take. The class doesn’t destroy any classes identity. There’s no reason to make their room hinder worse than the others, 1v1 or group, imo.

I don't see many Priest/Paladins from Targ, but I seem to see a lot more DW. I've talked to several citizens about why that is (OOCly) and the reason seems to be always the same: DW does most of what Targ factional classes do but does it better and gives more utility options.

Aralaya

There are plenty of Targossian paladins tf you talkin bout?
As for priest, the class has been in a bad place for a while, so DW was a nice replacement since priest is meh.
It's not a problem with DW, it's a problem with priest.

Torinn

Priest 4 lyf

Puxi

That just validates my point, it destroys factional class identity because it is "better" than the factional classes you have access to, regardless of reason.

I don't see many Paladin combatants (which is what matters here).

Aralaya

Puxi said:

That just validates my point, it destroys factional class identity because it is "better" than the factional classes you have access to, regardless of reason.

I don't see many Paladin combatants (which is what matters here).

If you take that stuff away from depthswalker, then the people who don't have access to those classes are screwed all over again though

Aegoth

wtb access to viridian form... or ANY forest faction abilities (which DW doesnt have at all)

Mizik

I knew Pinshot was balls!

Antonius

Puxi said:

That just validates my point, it destroys factional class identity because it is "better" than the factional classes you have access to, regardless of reason.

I don't see many Paladin combatants (which is what matters here).

If the criteria we're using is "better than a factional class in some way" then there are plenty of classes which destroy factional class identity, yet nobody ever seemed to make that argument before Depthswalker existed, and nobody seems to be making that argument about those classes now.

You probably don't see many Paladin combatants. There are some, though, and the number isn't any smaller than it was prior to Depthswalker being released. I regularly choose Paladin over Depthswalker, despite having access to both, because it's the superior class in that situation.

Nazihk

Runewarden is straight up better than Paladin for every spec that isn't SnB, and SnB has a 40+ hit prep time and garbage bashing. Depthswalker has nothing to do with the lack of Paladins. Paladins are lacking because Runewardens are straight up better.

Similarly, up until this most recent set of changes, Priest had some massive problems with group scaling due to things like Spiritlash being reliant on afflictions that that priest personally delivered. Again, depthswalker had nothing to do with that. Priest had these issues before Depthswalkers were introduced and, generally speaking, the only people playing Priests were the people who were so into the RP that they were willing to accept lackluster performance.

And on top of that, both classes suffer from the fact that Devotion is a lackluster skillset that scales badly in groups. Defensive rites scale badly against increasing numbers of enemies. Offensive rites scale badly because enemies are only affected by one set of rites, no matter how many Devotioners your team actually has. And both kinds of rites have severe mobility issues, needing to be relaid every time the fight shifts a room.

There are a lot of reasons why you don't see many paladins or priests, but "Depthswalker destroyed their identity" isn't one of them. 

Lenn

Factional classes are also not a great long-term investment if you ever think you might ever switch factions. I would personally like to see that resolved somehow, but it probably makes IRE money, albeit in a gross kind-of-predatorial way...

Puxi

I'm not arguing that Priest/Paladin/Devotion doesn't need adjustments. I'm also not arguing that DW, specifically, destroyed Targ factional classes.

My point is that, due to DW scaling extremely well with more of them, smart afflicting, low artefact barrier entry and has a ton more utility with better mechanics than current factional classes, makes it decrease the amount of people that would have otherwise played Targ factional classes thus degrading the factional combat identity due to lack of people playing them.

Zheo

Back on topic, does distort have a counter?

Solnir

Lenn said:

Factional classes are also not a great long-term investment if you ever think you might ever switch factions. I would personally like to see that resolved somehow, but it probably makes IRE money, albeit in a gross kind-of-predatorial way...

My number 1 reason for never going factional. I have no intention on leaving Targ, but if that happens I don't want to be out X amount of credits. As a non-whale, losing credits in any capacity is a serious factor for me to assess.

Elisella

Zheo said:

Back on topic, does distort have a counter?

Kind of, if you consider "Kill the Depthswalker" a counter.