Forums Home Forum Rules Achaea.com Lore Wiki Vote for Achaea! IronRealms.com
Home› Everything Achaea› The Golden Dais of Creation

High Clan Totems

FavoniusFavonius
in The Golden Dais of Creation
So, as mentioned in this thread - the Refugees of Shallam were created as a High Clan, but as a result of the destruction of their city they are no longer able to implant totems tuned to their enemies.

This seems silly. From an OOC perspective - the faction simply can't defend even the few rooms they have been reduced to for now. From an IC perspective - why would the fact that the enemy list is from a clan rather than a city make any difference?

In more general terms, if a High Clan desires to have an estate then they ought to be able to defend it.

Recommendation: High Clans should be able to implant totems tuned to their enemies.

Some caveats: I wouldn't recommend expanding totems to all clans, as some of them are OOC and that could blur IC/OOC lines. I'd also recommend some limits on this power to avoid enormous areas being implanted with totems (like the whole of Moghedu). Having an agreement with your Patron on which areas can be totemed would seem sensible.

But in principle - High Clans are RP orgs that can be held responsible and accountable for their actions, and this would seem to be a reasonable perk for the work they put in to enrich the game.
«13

Comments

  • FavoniusFavonius
    Yes, but then we'll never see you because you'll be solo-raiding Mhaldor.

    Think of your text-family. ;)
  • JhuiJhui
    good point, let's just remove transfix from totems then and I fully support your suggestion.  Damage totems are more fun anyways
    image
  • JhuiJhui
    Says the person with evade...


    Just kidding.  But seriously, totems take away so much potential.
    image
  • IocunIocun
    edited December 2012
    Jhui said:
    Says the person with evade...
    Hey, I gallop into Mhaldor's defendable totem more often than most!

    Totems may be annoying in some ways, but in principle it's a good thing that there's such a thing as a pronounced "home turf advantage". A raiding force should have to be more powerful than a defending force in order to succeed.

    →My Mudlet Scripts

  • JhuiJhui
    edited December 2012

    Iocun said:

    Totems may be annoying in some ways, but in principle it's a good thing that there's such a thing as a pronounced "home turf advantage". A raiding force should have to be more powerful than a defending force in order to succeed.
    Defenders are already at a huge advantage.  To name a few:

    They don't lose xp
    They have guards
    They have area boundary exits
    They have font
    They have worldburn

    People that are raided should look at being raided as a gift and never complain.  The raiders have a lot to lose.  The defenders have nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

    The only problem that I see with removing implantable totems completely is guard griefing.  However, the solution to that is to make guards not cost gold and just respawn at a slow rate which I wish was already implemented.  I shouldn't have to feel bad about killing another city's guards.

    I got a little off topic there, but the point is clear!  REMOVE IMPLANTABLE TOTEMS

    image
  • IocunIocun
    Jhui said:
    They don't lose xp
    They have guards
    They have area boundary exits
    They have font
    They have worldburn

    Not all of these are relevant in this respect. Not losing XP just means defenders don't have much to lose, but it isn't by itself a strategical combat advantage. Font only matters in sanctioned raids. Worldburn isn't always applicable, as many orders won't just enemy for city defence. Plus, shrines can be used offensively by raiders as well, just not as quickly and easily. Area boundary exits by themselves don't favour either party - the only reason they are a benefit for defenders is because of other already existing area benefits.

    What remains as definite strategical advantages are guards and totems, which definitely are extremely powerful advantages. All of that doesn't matter too much though anyways, since I wasn't talking about whether city defences are OP or not - just whether non-city locations that an organisation may have some "claim" over should be able to get some level of "home turf advantage" as well.

    P.S. Which party has how much to lose isn't relevant to what I said, really. I'm not saying raiding should be hard because raiders have it all nice and defenders are to be pitied. I'm saying it should be hard because of RP/"realism": cities and fortresses lose almost all meaning if they're just more of the same rooms with different room names. From an atmospheric point of view, I find that it should take much more to invade an enemy city than to waylay some travellers on a main highway, because this makes geography and organisational properties more meaningful. This is what I disliked about prismable house estates: a place that was built like a fortress would be considered actually as less safe than the Prelatorian Highway and thus avoided. Fortresses are a tangible representation of an organisation and them having some level of strength and safety helps to keep up an image of a relevant org.

    →My Mudlet Scripts

  • JhuiJhui
    You may be viewing raiding too realistically.  This is not a "storm the gates" to get inside and destroy the city completely scenario.  We are talking mini-conflicts where you kill what you can and return home.  Without totems, a city is still a fortress and hard to breach.  Guards alone accomplish this.  They give you strategic advantages (like area boundary) and keep you safe from a direct ambush.  Totems just make you sit back and do area attacks all day long.

    To stay on topic, totems anywhere outside of a city (and in city) are silly to me.  The people (mhuns, players, whatever) are there to defend it. But, I guess at the present, Shallam is screwed not having guards or totems, so this may be a decent temporary fix.
    image
  • DelphinusDelphinus
    Iocun said:
      I'd be fine with Ashtan having some strategically placed totems in New Thera or Mhaldor in Blackrock/Enverren, as long as they don't overdo it.
    This would actually be a terrible idea, given the role that New Thera's supposed to play. It's the exact reason that I hate how it's become the "new Delos."

    I do agree that totems put an inordinately huge focus on area/LoS. Tanris once said that Team Green's strength was melee, but that's a weakness in and of itself; between gravehands, bombs, totems, and area attacks, it's almost impossible to move onto an entrenched melee position at all.
    Achaea world map -- updated regularly
  • IocunIocun
    Well yeah, I guess Ashtan totems in New Thera would be slightly a different thing anyways, since you don't only get enemied to Ashtan for bashing New Thera. I'd be fine with New Thera-bashers getting a bit of a harder time with bashing there, but it would be bad if this was abused by Ashtan to help kill off all sorts of city enemies that are enemied for entirely different reasons.

    →My Mudlet Scripts

  • FavoniusFavonius
    Triak said:
    What happens when the Mhun racial high clan totems all of Mog?
    Come on now, I specifically addressed this exact point in the OP:
    Favonius said:
    I'd also recommend some limits on this power to avoid enormous areas being implanted with totems (like the whole of Moghedu). Having an agreement with your Patron on which areas can be totemed would seem sensible.
    Most of the other objections in the thread are along the lines of "totems are OP in cities", with the advantage of guards and (for some cities) worldburn. You may all be right about this, and it may well need fixing. That's a whole other thread in its own right.

    However, as @Iocun quite rightly pointed out, High Clans have none of these other advantages. Shouldn't they at least have something?
  • AvtoAvto
    Limit # of totems per city.
  • XithXith

    This is already listed.

    http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/25/the-list-listed-items

    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • FavoniusFavonius
    @Xith How'd I miss that? Red face here. My bad!

    @ everyone else - there was some useful discussion here on totems as a defensive tool in general, so feel free to use the thread to suggest improvements since its primary suggestion is already listed!
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United States
    I actually submitted this as a bug a while back and got a message saying it had been filed as medium priority, so hopefully will be fixed soon.


  • SilasSilas
    Triak said:
    You do realize that the refugees do not own New Hope? Right?  You do know what a refugee is?

    What happens when the Mhun racial high clan totems all of Mog?

    Sorry terrible idea.

    There should be less static defense in the game, not more.
    Ashtan can't really complain about anybody toteming anywhere.

  • CahinCahin
    Jhui said:

    Iocun said:

    Totems may be annoying in some ways, but in principle it's a good thing that there's such a thing as a pronounced "home turf advantage". A raiding force should have to be more powerful than a defending force in order to succeed.
    Defenders are already at a huge advantage.  To name a few:

    They don't lose xp
    They have guards
    They have area boundary exits
    They have font
    They have worldburn

    People that are raided should look at being raided as a gift and never complain.  The raiders have a lot to lose.  The defenders have nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

    The only problem that I see with removing implantable totems completely is guard griefing.  However, the solution to that is to make guards not cost gold and just respawn at a slow rate which I wish was already implemented.  I shouldn't have to feel bad about killing another city's guards.

    I got a little off topic there, but the point is clear!  REMOVE IMPLANTABLE TOTEMS

    That's only true if you ever enter the city.

  • TerraTerra
    Eh. I don't mind totems. It's guards that are annoying! If Shallam can live without guards, why can't everyone else?
  • RispokRispok
    edited February 2013
    Kresslack said:
    I actually submitted this as a bug a while back and got a message saying it had been filed as medium priority, so hopefully will be fixed soon.
    I submitted a bug about gathering on 2012/6/6, assigned medium priority, hasn't been touched yet. I hope you've got better luck than I!
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    Bug Reported on: 2012/11/17 19:20:40
    Category: High                     Status: Untested
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • SylvanceSylvance
    Silas said:


    Triak said:

    You do realize that the refugees do not own New Hope? Right?  You do know what a refugee is?

    What happens when the Mhun racial high clan totems all of Mog?

    Sorry terrible idea.

    There should be less static defense in the game, not more.

    Ashtan can't really complain about anybody toteming anywhere.


    when did @Triak become Ashtan?
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • AradorArador
    When @Tanris went on holiday.

  • TvistorTvistor
    Terra said:
    Eh. I don't mind totems. It's guards that are annoying! If Shallam can live without guards, why can't everyone else?
    The reason starts with 'S' and ends with 'aferoom'.
  • KyrraKyrra Australia
    I wish I could hang out in the safe room with all the cool kids. I heard they have games and dress up!

    On a kind of related note, and I did idea this, but does anyone else think it's stupid that an organisation appointed totem can't claim totems on behalf of said organisation unless they are also a member? If someone is entrusted enough to the position to smudge, sketch and uproot, why not claim? It seems kind of redundant.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • XithXith
    Do not understand question.


    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • JhuiJhui
    Cahin said:
    Jhui said:

    Iocun said:

    Totems may be annoying in some ways, but in principle it's a good thing that there's such a thing as a pronounced "home turf advantage". A raiding force should have to be more powerful than a defending force in order to succeed.
    Defenders are already at a huge advantage.  To name a few:

    They don't lose xp
    They have guards
    They have area boundary exits
    They have font
    They have worldburn

    People that are raided should look at being raided as a gift and never complain.  The raiders have a lot to lose.  The defenders have nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

    The only problem that I see with removing implantable totems completely is guard griefing.  However, the solution to that is to make guards not cost gold and just respawn at a slow rate which I wish was already implemented.  I shouldn't have to feel bad about killing another city's guards.

    I got a little off topic there, but the point is clear!  REMOVE IMPLANTABLE TOTEMS

    That's only true if you ever enter the city.
    that was the point.  what I was saying was, "people that complain about being sanction raided (or even just raided in-city) should stop and think, shit if I score a lucky kill and I die 50x I will still end up on top."
    image
  • KyrraKyrra Australia
    A House/Order/City appointed totemer cannot claim totems on behalf of that organisation unless they are also a member. Any runelorist can do this as a member of said organisation without being the appointed totemer.

    I don't understand why the person entrusted to do the work cannot claim on behalf since they can do everything else.

    Not all Orgs have runelorists as members, and not everyone enjoys mass totem work, or wants to bother. I imagine High Clans will count as a proper org for claiming totems when they can. I kind of thought the whole idea of having that appointed position meant you didn't have to wait on those org members to be around and with you to claim totems, it's not really different to it not existing.

    Also, should be able to have a way to check which orgs you're working for. You cannot do this outside if being a member.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

Sign In or Register to comment.