Shaman RP Advice

Storil

Hello,

Storil recently switched from Depthswalker to Shaman after returning from a long sleep. He wanted something different and had always been intrigued by the shaman class because it seemed very mysterious and complex.  He is enjoying the class very much, but most of the RP with him has been around his race, family and city. I have never really done all that much class based RP with him. But I would really like to learn how to RP a shaman.  Does anyone have any advice on how I might do this?.  Storil has talked with @Neraka and @Hadassah and found them very helpful. He has also joined the Shaman clan and read some of the scrolls there. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Shirszae

I would begin by deciding what exactly drew him from Depthswalker to Shamanism. I'd give a deeper reason than just 'something new' since it'd provide him (and you) with a more definite idea of where to begin exploring. But really, it depends on what kind of ideas you have. There's quite a lot of potential for shaman rp, which is only enhanced with the vodun illusion ability. Just pick up something that intrigues your character, study it, and then start pulling people into interactions around that thing.

Kayeil

A lot of the people who used to be really into this sort of RP seem to be gone, either from retirement or just don't show up anymore but some still remain. I think @Truax would be a good example of a current player who really gets into it, right down to her outfits and the way her character looks. In my experience Cyrene has never been the best place to seek that sort of ritualism and RP (Cyrene used to have a very suspicious and negative view of shamans) so it would be good to reach out to shamans of other cities and ritualists in general where that kind of background was encouraged regularly.

Telendrieth

Shaman has some pretty amazing choices and hooks for RP as well. I have a few books on folklore and superstitions I'd sit down and get some ideas from for either Telen when he was a Shaman or my Pathfinder witch character. 

Kiet

Class RP is pretty boring, and focusing on making an interesting character as a person is a lot more rewarding, imo. Class is just one of the myriad of aspects that define your character, and often not a big one.

The only exceptions to this would've been occultists when everyone and their mom wasn't one, the factional classes, and well-done serpent. Shaman is just 'slightly creepy magic user' and that can be all sorts of characters.

Shirszae

lol   

Kiet

You can lol all you like but I've never met a single interesting character who put class RP at the forefront except for those specific, heavy-flavored classes.

The shaman guild/house  + the curia were incredibly meh, mage houses were some of the most identity-lacking ones in the game. People remember Rho as a priest because priest is an aligned class. If he had been a mage no one would even care.

I guess you can add knights, but only if they're actually knighted. Otherwise you're just a dude in heavy armour and that's uninteresting on its own.

Mathonwy

Magi have the best potential for RP I think, but it would have to be both involved and non-factional, which sounds pretty bad tbh. The elemental lord stuff has some possibilities for magi but no idea if anyone is actively pursuing this anymore.

As for class RP, I think the best thing to do is find what you think interesting or remarkable and what resonates the most with your conception of who or what you want your character to be. Then run with that. But don't make it the sole defining characteristic about your character; even Rho was more than Rho, That One Priest.

Kyrra

Kiet said:

You can lol all you like but I've never met a single interesting character who put class RP at the forefront except for those specific, heavy-flavored classes.

The shaman guild/house  + the curia were incredibly meh, mage houses were some of the most identity-lacking ones in the game. People remember Rho as a priest because priest is an aligned class. If he had been a mage no one would even care.

I guess you can add knights, but only if they're actually knighted. Otherwise you're just a dude in heavy armour and that's uninteresting on its own.

Totems.

Atalkez

Multi class kind of killed class rp to a certain extent. Hard to rp a samurai when you’re actually a shaman, etc.

Kiet

Multiclass, the nonsensical mechanics behind changing classes, lucrescent nuts, the way you even earn lessons.

And even beyond that, it's cliche and overdone for most classes, and most classes don't actually have that strong an identity in the skills themselves. I used serpents earlier as one of the few non-aligned classes, because serpent is a class that has basically every part of the sneaky archetype: infiltration, stealth, thieving, manipulation, evasiveness, etc.. Serpent forces you to be a certain kind of player to even enjoy the class long-term, whereas like, people pick shaman for all sorts of reasons (they like dolls, they like affliction combat, they like group utility). The flavour of shaman skills is strong, but it doesn't tie that much to the actual mechanics outside vodun itself, and jesters have that too. You don't have to gaf about any of the core themes of shaman to enjoy the class mechanically, whereas if you don't enjoy being evasive or being good at infiltration you might as well play literally any other affliction class.

There's a ton of characters that are very serpent, because serpent is such a strong class in its flavour and abilities tying together. I can't think of a single person that's actually played a shaman, mage, non-knighted knight, bard, and just made me go 'omg they're such a <x>.'

Part of this is probably that subterfuge is cool, most skills are basically a list of attacks and little else (the other serp skills have this issue too, but action in hypnosis and hypnosis itself is pretty defining at least I guess).

Monk/bm kind of almost do this, I guess, but no one actually lives as an ascetic in Achaea, really.

I guess the tldr is that most classes don't have a particularly compelling identity that ties into the mechanical side of them, which means most people playing the class don't gaf about having any sort of 'established' class identity.

Minifie

I still think it depends on the class. You can incorporate most into your RP just fine, and enhance it with your class, but the multiclass conundrum is definitely a big one. my class 1 and 2 are both infernal/runewarden, because knight is my archetype. I also have monk, magi and BM. BM CAN fit that too but monk? magi? Yeah... The way I (after some more customisations) is to have most of my stuff reflect archetype 1: Infernal. I plan to make my staff a bladed cane of sorts, my BM sword is lifeless fates (necromancy name, so I keep it) and monk... I'll choke something?

If you want the class to enhance your RP, go for it, it's not impossible, can  be done and absolutely can be enjoyable! Just keep in mind if you start multiclassing you may find yourself struggling to keep an identity when you fill into other classes is all. It's not impossible at all, but it can be tricky.

Unless you are Dochitha and RP King of all the gold ever.

Shirszae

I've never bought into the whole 'multiclass killed class rp'  shtick, but I might approach class rp a little differently to how everyone else sees it.  To me, for the most part, class rp simply means acknowledging your classes as more than just a set of abilities, making them as much a part of your character as the character's personality and anything else, finding ways to include and reference their abilities in a manner that makes sense outside of straight pk, as well as having a valid reason for why they are what they are.

I probably do agree that someone who is -just- a <x class> could be boring. A good character is a well-rounde character, after all. But the flat 'class rp sucks and is not worth the bother' rings pretty false to me.

Kiet

I didn't say it wasn't worth the bother, I said that you should focus on making an interesting character and then worry about what you do with your class(es).

Mathonwy

@Kiet : before I left there were a few people I would associate heavily as magi, if only because I was looking to establish some sort of non-Good Order rp. @Aegoth, @Azor, @Saeva before she caught the apo bug, and plenty of others throughout the years in other factions which is how I know that that kind of an association is possible I suppose. 

But I think characters taking on a class that doesn't necessarily suit their RP isn't necessarily a structural problem with classes themselves (though I do wish more could be done to facilitate and align class-based RP). That's a problem that's been present ever since guilds (it's just easier since there are fewer class gatekeepers in play) and I think we probably all agree we see better results when we get a player's buy-in to RP a role or class rather than force them to with threats etc.

ETA: I would even go so far as to say that class-based RP is probably cliche because it's been disparate and not much has really been done to offer feedback, constructive criticism, etc. and embracing that aspect and offering those services might create more interesting class-based RP as a result.

So to that point I would say, to @OP, don't feel limited or discouraged because there may be a lack of class-based RP. Be one of the ones to revive it! What's most important is that you have fun, and class-based RP can help with immersion and to flesh out aspects of your character you maybe hadn't even considered.

Torinn

@Ankhareoutef roleplays a shaman amazingly.  After the mdor targ war he had a bout of possession by an evil spirit, then after the war concluded he brought a few of us to the Grey to realign the spiritual energy that was thrown out if balance.  It was all in a house but it was long form emotes with RP combat, very badass.  You can class rp anything if you really get into it.  Biggest thing is not being afraid to jump in the deep end.

Accipiter

I think many classes have had their flavour stolen by non-class stuff. Shamans in particular are forcused on 'rituals' which really need an audience standing around to see that. Serpents can just be sneaky and it doesn't need anyone else to buy into it. The factional classes have whole factions there to support it. 

DW could have some nice RP though because the whole tsol'teth stuff is there for you to grab onto.

Shirszae

See, thats where I sort of disagree with things. Whether something exists or not elsewhere doesnt inhibit your ability to take elements of your class you enjoy and act on them and have just as much fun with it. As for shamans, I think they lend themselves pretty well to ritualism, but I don't think thats all they are good for, or at least, I don't think the rituals necessarily need to be the 'everyone else stand back and watch.' Specially if its an interaction with just another person in a quiet corner.

Accipiter

I meant that people will associate the flavour with things other than the class. Taking serpents as an example, if someone is a serpent and is sneaky, people will say 'Oh, that is because they are a serpent' but that doesn't mean you can't be sneaky as lots of other classes, like 5 of them have some kind of stealth or another.

But if you practice a lot of rituals, people are more likely to associate it with that the ritual is actually doing than it being a shaman thing, pretty much because anyone can do a ritual without being a shaman and there isn't that much that actually having the skills adds to it. 

If it isn't supported by your skills, then there isn't much use to the RP since anyone of any class could just do it as well, but things that are generalised and actually supported by the skills work well.

Shirszae

I mean, rituals are not a shaman-exclusive thing, nor do I think by itself its an association that makes a particular lot of sense. There are a lot of kinds of rituals, after all. I could see specific kinds of rituals being more thematically linked to shaman, and which I would consider it makes much more sense for a shaman to pull off than some other class, if you include elements of spiritlore or other odd bits of shamanism and such, but basically all the magic-using classes could be considered ritualists.

Kayeil

Shirszae makes good points. I certainly wouldn't consider Cyrene a focal point of ritualism compared to some other cities (maybe when the Kindred was around?) but I do remember the Nerai putting on some interesting rituals and there was nothing shamanistic about that.

Voli

I think a lot of the problem is that a lot of people (myself included) tend to attribute certain styles of RP to certain classes., whether it's because of Achaea Lore, or similar fantasy/sci-fi themes.

For example, it seems ridiculous to have a Runewarden with an RP around stealth, subterfuge, and anonymity.

Won't stop me from trying, when I get it, though. Just gotta take a leap and see what works (and make sure it works with effort and character RP). Some RP angles can seem disingenuous and unearned if there is no background to it.

Storil

Thanks everyone for the feedback. This has been most helpful.

Mathilda

You can totally play a sleuthy Runewarden! It's the non-aligned warrior class, drawing its runic powers mainly from the earth. Think 'FBI field agent', the one who gets down and dirty as opposed to the more indoorsy lab geeks (peer alchemists).

[Deleted User]

When I first joined Ashtan, there wasn't another shaman in sight and it stayed that way for a very long time. In the end, I drew from my own Native American heritage at first and then gradually learned a bit more about the denizen practitioners in the realm and ran with the possibilities. 

I didn't even know the shaman's clan was a thing for a really long time. Most of the info there seems really outdated though anyway. 

I like the shaman RP I've built up. It works for Tru because her focus on it is always infused with a sense of her city's ethos. That's where I'd suggest you start as well. Good luck!

Bronislav

I know that it wasn't for everyone, and the result could be more harm than good, but I happened to enjoy the notion of class-based RP.

Order of Thurisaz/Knighthood Orders? Serpentlords? Various Monk Houses? Occultist House? Some of these fell to the wayside during various city Renaissance-ing , and others shifted to a less interesting, more clan-based setup.

Sure, it played right into stereotypes, but it also offered plenty of room to break the mold. Take Serpents in various cities, for example: sure, you had the stereotypical Serpentlord House (which boasted a LOT of lore regarding the class and had a great deal of potential). You had the more snipey/bloodthirsty/assassin clique in the Naga. You had the Shadowsnakes competing with the Serpentlords for accumulation of the most knowledge through the occult, and being the most aligned towards stealth and theft (arguably). You had the Sentinels of Nature (Okay, I admit, I know next to nothing about these regarding Serpents). You had the Dawnstriders who were willing to use unsavory methods to protect creation, while being ever-mindful of not becoming the thing they despise. And then you had the Mojushai, which accepted Serpents who sought to temper their nature and pursue perfection both within and without for the betterment of Cyrene.

Yeah, I'm going to be a little bitter over multiclass because it made class RP a little more complicated. But I also like how it's opened a few things up - Houses focus more on actions and interests than class, class-heavy clans have opened up to become more inclusive, and people can enjoy what they like about different classes without spending God-knows-how-much money to switch. I understand the necessity, but I think that something WAS lost in the transition, and I don't think that we can have it both ways.

tl;dr: Class RP was really enjoyable and had lots of potential, but now we have other stuff to play with. When life gives you lemons, demand to see Life's manager.