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TeotwaukiTeotwauki Member Posts: 12
I just returned to the game to find illusion equilibrium has been extended quite a lot when used in conjunction with a dstab, making the conventional dstab/illusion impractical when fighting aside from one off illusions like a magi would use. From what I could see searching, this was to try and nerf serpent a bit at the higher artifact levels, correct me if I'm wrong, that's about the only info I could find. Serpent have always been a fairly stable class that I think most people would consider balanced, they have received some buffs to skills to make them more competitive as combat developed and systems/curing changed, although nothing I would have thought were game changing. I have been away from combat for a very long time though.

Illusion has always been an integral part of serpent combat, illusions add a whole other dimension to combat that isn't just a situation prep. With the advent of higher automation in combat, I think illusions are still quite valid and useful, and keep Achaean combat interesting as people have to code around them or employ their own knowledge of combat to ignore them. They also add an almost infinite depth to combat that can be tailored depending on class and situation, either against systems or the player. Anyway, I'm just shocked this was changed as this changes the dynamic of the class completely and brings it inline with most other affliction classes.

Anyway, seems the advanced search feature isn't on there forums, or I can't find it, and I'm not having too much luck after searching through 15 pages of "illusion" results. Can anyone enlighten me as to why illusion was changed specifically, if it was just a balancing issue, why illusion and not another skill?

Now that some time has past, would everyone say it was a positive thing, did it achieve what it was intended to achieve?


  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aff illusions have been useless for years, but illusion eq got balanced because people that relied too much on automated offense complained basically. It does get annoying sometimes not knowing what's real, of course, but it would've been much more elegantly handled with a cd rather than a nerf that makes it extremely situational.
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,522 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    The actual illusion nerf classlead was more about spam than anything else. I didn't mind anti-automation illusions, but then there were people spamming tumble illusion/fly illusion/etc. twice per dstab, and people tend to color/echo/etc. lines like that. The spam got really annoying.

    Serpent is very strong now without confusing your opponent at all, so adding random spam and confusion on top of it really provides a benefit that's not warranted. It was definitely something serpent no longer really needed. Though, I had as much fun as anyone with illusions, so I get the sadness.

  • TeotwaukiTeotwauki Member Posts: 12
    From a spam perspective I can see the annoyance. I attempted to get back in to the swing of Achaea just after server side curing and made a large portion of my illusions non combat related. Snapping, flying, behead, arrows, etc.. I think it did throw people off, although It would be unpleasant if you have large echos.

    I guess I'm still fairly shocked to see the drastic change, I would have thought it would have been in the interest of promoting combat complexity that they remained a focal point, even if they were somehow limited to cures and/or a cool down imposed. I was quite looking forward to designing my illusion systems around fighting different people for the sole purpose of defeating automation, anyway, I guess I'm just a bit annoyed, it would have been nice to see the problem handled in a different way. Especially since illusions have been around since genesis and have never posed a problem before, and any spam caused is ultimately the responsibility of the recipient in coding echos that are not obnoxious or building in some anti illusion into them.

    Also, I get that the class may not have changed too much on a power level, although I feel it lost a lot of what made it unique.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,070 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Can always classlead an idea if you have one. Each player gets 5 submits (I think there may be a play time gate but not 100% sure).

    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's definitely a danger to focus too much on 'objective' combat ability at the expense of interesting + just fun mechanics.

    Serpents don't really need any combat buffs right now, but illusions were definitely a very fun aspect of the class.
  • TeotwaukiTeotwauki Member Posts: 12
    Atalkez said:
    Can always classlead an idea if you have one. Each player gets 5 submits (I think there may be a play time gate but not 100% sure).
    Sounds like the way to go, thanks.
  • TaryiusTaryius Member Posts: 759 @ - Epic Achaean
    can serpents still illusion/bite or bite/illusion? 
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Monk illusions are still killer. Someone nerf monk illusions too!
    Huh. Neat.
  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Technically you can still combo illusion with balance usage, it's just the eq cost makes it undesirable because instead of it only costing 1s eq when onbal, it now costs 3s or whatever it is. When you dstab at <2s, that's a huge hit you're taking.

    You can still of course use illusions standalone.
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,413 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited May 2017
    Illusion is still situationally useful, it is just made uneconomical to illusion every balance. You can still mess with automation at the cost of longer balance situationally and it isn't an issue, serpent AFF output is remarkable. 

    Illusion could also be put on separate class class balance or with a 15s CD or something and maintain 1s EQ cost. 
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