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Ahmet

@Makarios Preapply is the only way to get around a break + force apply, unless you count blissful ignorance or gaiartha, neither of which are reliable methods for dealing with it.

Aegoth

Thanks for your explanations, @Makarios!

Makarios

Ahmet said:

@Makarios Preapply is the only way to get around a break + force apply, unless you count blissful ignorance or gaiartha, neither of which are reliable methods for dealing with it.

Not strictly the case, but monk is balanced with that in mind (the force apply). Its a fairly important aspect of the scythe kill setup (which actually makes it one of the more fragile instakills, as there are a lot of things that can go wrong, several out of the monk's control).

Farrah

Ahmet said:

@Makarios Preapply is the only way to get around a break + force apply, unless you count blissful ignorance or gaiartha, neither of which are reliable methods for dealing with it.

Break + force apply isn't a kill. You don't necessarily have to "get around it." Most people would counter the monk setup in a different way.

Though BBT damage is absurd vs some classes. I think it's because it's highly resistable, compared to unblockable type finishers like pummel and DSB. So bards, for example, just die to two BBTs. On the other hand, fk bards.

It's difficult to balance when you have wrench torso, which requires 3 BBTs, which basically requires force apply, and then you have some classes that just get unstoppably get crushed by two BBTs. So how do you make it possible to avoid being BBTed twice but viable to get three BBTs?

Antonius

Farrah said:

Ahmet said:

@Makarios Preapply is the only way to get around a break + force apply, unless you count blissful ignorance or gaiartha, neither of which are reliable methods for dealing with it.

Break + force apply isn't a kill. You don't necessarily have to "get around it." Most people would counter the monk setup in a different way.

Though BBT damage is absurd vs some classes. I think it's because it's highly resistable, compared to unblockable type finishers like pummel and DSB. So bards, for example, just die to two BBTs. On the other hand, fk bards.

It's difficult to balance when you have wrench torso, which requires 3 BBTs, which basically requires force apply, and then you have some classes that just get unstoppably get crushed by two BBTs. So how do you make it possible to avoid being BBTed twice but viable to get three BBTs?

You don't need to make it possible to avoid being BBTed twice, you just have to make two BBTs not capable of killing anybody (so unresistable, percentage-based damage; basically the same thing that was done with disembowel). It seems like wrench torso or torso damage should be a pre-requisite for a kill using BBT, rather than it being possible at a certain amount of strength to just totally ignore both on most people.

Ahmet

Three restoration balances is plenty of time to BBT someone 3-4 times though, no?

IDK maybe I'm just salty.

Farrah

Three resto balances is enough for three BBTs, which is my point, with three BBTs being required for the wrench torso kill.

Keorin

Ahmet said:

Three restoration balances is plenty of time to BBT someone 3-4 times though, no?

IDK maybe I'm just salty.

Three resto balances is enough for three backbreakers, if you can undeaf before the break, which there are defenses against. And there's no chance to slip a torso break in there as well, so they'd have had to break it beforehand. Otherwise, the torso wrench instant kill would be impossible, as it relies on the extra prone time.

You also haven't used a mount the last few times I fought you, at least, which hasn't been doing you any favours.

Sobriquet

Thank you for the detailed response @Makarios