SnB PvP Guide

Exelethril

I might start being around slightly less soon(getting busy rl again), so spent some time this morning to write this non-specific SnB guide while hungover/bored. 

This is a newbie guide, so not particularly useful for non-newbies. Overall, SnB is a straightforward prep/aff class but shieldstrikes allow room for complexity.

• Your Tools

-Sword attacks

Each sword attack allows envenoming.

1. Slice : This is your fastest attack and allows limb targeting, hence, your bread and butter attack. Important in delivering venoms that shield smashes otherwise cannot.
2. Guardbreaks : Generates +1 ferocity. Quite useful for generating additional ferocity for prepping/finishers. Doesn't allow targeting.
3. Rend : Does more limb damage relative to slice. Not particularly useful because of the long balance time.
4. Raze : Razes rebounding/shield, in that order.
   

Note : Targeted attacks do 25% less damage.


-Shield smashes

Each of these shield attacks generate +1 ferocity. Has a limited aff pool.

1. Drive : gives asthma
2. Low : Gives clumsiness
3. Mid : Gives paralysis
4. High : Prevents focusing for 2.5 seconds and gives mental affs in this order, doesn't overlap existing mental affs if present : { dizziness, recklessness, stupidity, confusion, epilepsy }
5. Trip : Prones someone
6. Club : Stuns a prone person, can only be used in conjunction with impale and any level 2 broken limb.

-Shieldstrikes

These require 4 levels of ferocity to perform and are balanceless. These can't bypass shield/rebounding and be used while paralyzed however. Can't be used while impaling someone either.

1. Shieldstrike low : This prones someone. It allows you to bypass parry if used simultaneously with a combination slice/rend/shield smash.
2. Shieldstrike mid : Gives sensitivity
3. Shieldstrike high : Stuns for 0.5 seconds

-Combinations

Allows you to combine a sword attack with a shield attack, which is what you'll be doing 99% of the time. This allows for proper afflicting/razing.


-Dedication

Allows you to bypass paralysis and use any combination attack() but you pay an increasing health/mana penalty when used consistently and consecutively. Allows for prio switching while maintaining offensive momentum but can backfire if used carelessly. Certain classes can capitalize on mana loss pretty well.


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• Aff Paths
  
  

Depending on the class you're fighting, you'll want to vary your strategy. Sticking illness will let you bypass parrying.

-Focuslock :

Most of your paths will tend to lead to this eventually. Generally involves making your opponent play a game of focus roulette when completed properly.

1. kelp stack -- (when you have at least 2 kelp affs stuck on your opponent, one of them being asthma)
2. gecko/smash mid -- (when you notice your opponent eats kelp but doesn't smoke, you can assume slickness is stuck | when your opponent eats bloodroot, proceeding becomes 50/50 paralysis or slickness)  
3. slike/smash high -- (if your opponent doesn't apply a salve until this point -- they are soft-focuslocked / could probs expect shield spamming from smart opponents)
4. paralysis/smash high -- (you'll want to have enough ferocity to prone them at this point with a shieldstrike low to prevent shielding/paralysis to prevent touch tree - from here it's a 1/3 chance your opponent will focus anorexia)
5. mental aff venom/smash high -- (preferably aconite or whatever prevents the active heal of x class)
   

-Salvelock :

Requires two leg breaks or leg/head. A pretty good strat against momentum classes that static parry torso, leaving their head/legs unparried. Not particularly useful against opponents that can hinder your movements while they aren't in the room because of tumble.

1. stick asthma/slickness and make sure opponent's tree is on cooldown --(weariness too if they can use fitness)
2. break leg1 with slike/smash high --(can't focus anorexia/stand/shield)
3. break leg2 or head with paralysis/smash high --(head might be better, so your opponent will have 3 mental affs at this point - 1/3 chance to focus anorexia)
4. keep stacking mentals -> sensitivity -> random affs

Alternatively..

1. 3-4 kelp stack and make sure opponent's tree is on cooldown.
2. break leg1 with shieldstrike low/gecko/smash mid --(pray to rngesus for a non-asthma/slickness cure)
3. attack leg2 with slike/smash high -- (they'll apply epidermal and mending before step 4 if slickness is cured)
4. attack leg2 again with slike/smash high into gecko/drive or gecko/smash high -- (if asthma/slickness was cured or just slickness)
5. paralysis/smash high -> mental aff stack -> random affs

--This path is particularly deadly with a Nairat runeblade vs bad prios, since it guarantees a dsb whenever
--Might have flawed logic here


-Damage stack :

For damaging out non-tanky people. Use untargeted slices/engage.

1. stick sensitivity into a 2/3-kelp aff stack -- (shieldstrike mid is useful) 
2. illness/darkshade
3. focus lock

-Darkshade stack :

Useful against serps next to a lightwall.

1. stack darkshade/illness/addiction with paralysis/clumsiness + dedication
2. focus lock

-Prep stack :

Versus classes or people that tend to run, prepping them slowly into a disembowel is a good way to kill them.

1. stick illness (or clumsiness first, depending)
2. focus lock

-Epseth/Trip :

You can epseth/trip versus random torso resto applies but I personally don't use this much because you risk losing most aff momentum on fake applies.

-Anti-INT monk stack :

Only somewhat useful in groups with other aff classes versus INT monks, since stupidity prevents telepathy attacks. Smash high gives you access to mental affs not otherwise available to DWC. You're probably still going to die to artied kai chokes though.

1.  aconite/smash high spam
2.  eurypteria(etc)/smash high etc --(if they don't eat goldenseal)
3.  aconite/smash high --(when they finally focus)

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• Finisher Strats
  
  

-Disembowel

Your main kill strat. The standard path requires a single leg break in combination with impale/club - without the stun, your opponent can writhe out in time. An opponent tumbling within ~2 seconds of the leg break allows them to leave the room before your disembowel goes through.

Torso damage greatly modifies the damage depending on STR. 

In general :

1. Break torso
2. Break leg/trip/shieldstrike high or shieldstrike low/combination --(if they don't apply restoration to torso)
3. Impale/club
4. Dsb
   

Reverse :

If you have a level 2/3 longsword, you could optionally :

1. Break leg/trip/shieldstrike high or shieldstrike low/combination --(if they don't apply restoration to torso)
2. Break torso
3. Impale/club
4. Dsb

Gives your opponent a longer tumble window though.

Versus monks :

You can also kill unsuspecting opponents with an arm break and 4 ferocity. Best used on monks to prevent kai cripple.

1. Break torso
2. Stop attacking and wait for them to combo you
3. Break arm immediately when they do -- (if they don't apply to torso)
4. Shieldstrike low/impale/club
5. Disembowel

--Note :

1. SnB cannot punish tumblers as heavily as DWC can via lunge/engage and lacks the ability to damage past constant shielding/rebounding.
2. Runewardens get a stacking bonus from Lagua.
3. Paladins get +2 STR from Inspiration
4. Antonius' dsb testing : Link
   

-Damnation

Paladin SnBs are the "SnB gods" and SnB's finisher path for Damnation just happens to be pretty op. The advantage you'll have over DWC is the ability to either prone without losing affliction momentum or give an extra kelp aff on a tertiary balance (via shieldstrike mid). 

There are several ways to go about this but the general strat is :

1. Prep head/leg. 
2. Break leg with asthma + 2 kelp affs --(hope they don't cure asthma, weariness is important against fitness users) or try and break with a focuslock
3. Break head --(use anorexia/smash high for 3 mental affs + inability to focus/apply salve from being off salve balance from leg apply)
4. Hellsight (narrow window for your opponent to stand -> escape/go kelp fishing)
5. Damnation
   
   

-Vivisect

Vivisect is somewhat viable but not particularly effective. You'll need a focus lock and two limb breaks (preferrable two legs). SnB Infernals get additional maggot affs which can steadily overwhelm an opponent with dedication though.

1. Focus or truelock
2. Shieldstrike low/break leg1 + epteth
3. Break leg2 + epteth
4. Vivisect --(if they don't restore at any point, if they do, trample with the limbcrusher trait)

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• Shieldstrike Strats
  
  

Shieldstrike low

During the start of a group fight, using 2 guardbreaks to quickly generate 4 ferocity into shieldstrike low/impale allows you to impale someone. If they're a class with a long balance recovery, even better.

Using this at the start of a combination attack allows you to bypass parry.

Shieldstrike mid

Kelp stacking and aff momentum. Particularly useful versus other momentum classes.

Shieldstrike high

This has the potential to delay curing, pretty powerful but hard to time right. (aka if someone regains herb balance in 0.1 seconds and you shieldstrike them, they won't be able to eat for 0.4 more seconds)

Useful for narrowing the tumbling window on a leg break.

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SnB has it's perks and whatnot. It's particularly strong against certain momentum classes because of dedication.

I wouldn't say it's better than the other specs or most classes.

[spoiler]unless you're a SnB paladin.[/spoiler]

Driden

Good read

Cailan

I don't think you need a lvl 2/3 longsword to do leg->torso for DSB due to the club. There should be a small window to impale before they stand, I thought? Not sure because not enough people apply on every torso hit for me to justify risking it.

Antonius

Just use shieldstrike high to stun on the leg break and you definitely have enough time. That's good advice even with an artefact longsword since sometimes server balance regain screws you.

Cailan

Sorry yeah I meant shieldstrike high. Obviously you can't club before you impale, Cailan.

Great guide though, wish I had something like this when first starting.

Kenway

I could consitently break leg then torso with a level 1 sword

Exelethril

I didn't proofread much prior to posting so I wanted to add that :

Whenever you see a strategy that involves a leg break in the guide, you should assume it's with shieldstrike low, unless stated otherwise (so you'll need 4 ferocity) to prevent shielding.

Riell

Purposeful necro to add to an amazing guide.

Infernal snb can guarantee a dsb while still breaking leg first, even with forged longsword.

Break leg/trip > they tumble > break torso with slice prefarar smash mid to undeaf >i mpale/club/screech (screech cancels tumble if they're undeaf > dsb

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/JeDGp6A9

No aff pressure, no ferocity, started as full health. Runie with algiz. I have a 20str disembowel and forged longsword.

Antonius

Does screech always cancel tumble? Tumble is only cancelled if you try to move in the direction you're tumbling if you're prone (rather than being cancelled by attempting to move in any direction if you're not). Assuming screech is forced movement in a random direction, there's only a chance it will cancel tumble in rooms with multiple exits.

Riell

Antonius said:

Does screech always cancel tumble? Tumble is only cancelled if you try to move in the direction you're tumbling if you're prone (rather than being cancelled by attempting to move in any direction if you're not). Assuming screech is forced movement in a random direction, there's only a chance it will cancel tumble in rooms with multiple exits.

Believe screech is just a tumble cancel, not forced movement.  I've tested in a couple different rooms with multiple exits.

Atalkez

You got that purely because of screech. Club failed, since his leg was cured. Without him being off balance, you wouldn’t even get the dsb. This is why I said forged can’t do leg>torso setups very well, though with screech working, it opens the window up a lot.

@Antonius I can’t remember the last time screech failed to cancel my tumble

Riell

Atalkez said:

You got that purely because of screech. Club failed, since his leg was cured. Without him being off balance, you wouldn’t even get the dsb. This is why I said forged can’t do leg>torso setups very well, though with screech working, it opens the window up a lot.

@Antonius I can’t remember the last time screech failed to cancel my tumble

oooo you're right!  Still, screech makes me happeh

@Antonius screech is straight tumble cancel. Just tested a few times with lyniara tumbling down from clouds. Interrupted every time.

@Atalkez So it looks like it's only guaranteed IF they tumble?

Farrah

Antonius said:

Does screech always cancel tumble? Tumble is only cancelled if you try to move in the direction you're tumbling if you're prone (rather than being cancelled by attempting to move in any direction if you're not). Assuming screech is forced movement in a random direction, there's only a chance it will cancel tumble in rooms with multiple exits.

There was a change that made it so prone fear always cancels tumble, and I'm pretty sure screech does as well now (and apostate cowardice). It might even be that moving any direction cancels now. I remember testing this but can't remember the answer because it didn't matter to me (I just use the relevant direction).

Farrah

Riell said:

Atalkez said:

You got that purely because of screech. Club failed, since his leg was cured. Without him being off balance, you wouldn’t even get the dsb. This is why I said forged can’t do leg>torso setups very well, though with screech working, it opens the window up a lot.

@Antonius I can’t remember the last time screech failed to cancel my tumble

oooo you're right!  Still, screech makes me happeh

@Antonius screech is straight tumble cancel. Just tested a few times with lyniara tumbling down from clouds. Interrupted every time.

@Atalkez So it looks like it's only guaranteed IF they tumble?

You can make it guaranteed if they don't tumble by using shieldstrike high (I think? Whatever the stun one is) with the trip. Just need ferocity.

Riell

Aye!  I have that set up and ready to go, but was trying to see if it's executable without it.

@Farrah @Atalkez Does Algiz on a Runewarden reduce dsb damage?

Antonius

Farrah said:

Antonius said:

Does screech always cancel tumble? Tumble is only cancelled if you try to move in the direction you're tumbling if you're prone (rather than being cancelled by attempting to move in any direction if you're not). Assuming screech is forced movement in a random direction, there's only a chance it will cancel tumble in rooms with multiple exits.

There was a change that made it so prone fear always cancels tumble, and I'm pretty sure screech does as well now (and apostate cowardice). It might even be that moving any direction cancels now. I remember testing this but can't remember the answer because it didn't matter to me (I just use the relevant direction).

Regular, non-fear movement doesn't cancel tumble if it's not in the direction you're tumbling (I tested it before I posted). I'd forgotten about the change to movement caused by fear always cancelling tumble though.

Farrah

Riell said:

Aye!  I have that set up and ready to go, but was trying to see if it's executable without it.

@Farrah @Atalkez Does Algiz on a Runewarden reduce dsb damage?

Yes.

Exelethril

Wtf all these notifications 

Dochitha

Exelethril said:

Wtf all these notifications 

Can't deny, you did a great guide that's gonna last a really long time!

Mizik

Concuss spam so underrated.

Farrah

You mean infuriating.

[Deleted User]

Farrah said:

You mean infuriating.

It's probably where Tanris got it from. Both of them live to find out the most frustrating ways to fight as a class.

Farrah

I don't think it will actually be that bad after getting used to it. But omg not seeing half my attacks because of all the blackout I kept accidentally breaking a leg early.