Sword and shield hunting

Siphynee

What is the best way to hunt with the sword and shield specialisation? I am still using a shortsword and just jabbing things, which because of Swordplay seems just so much better than specialisation-specific attacks. A slice and smash combination (with a longsword) is a little bit faster, but significantly weaker so in terms of damage per second it's much worse.

I am transcendent in weaponmastery.

Nazihk

The best way to hunt as sword and shield is to switch to Dragonform and bash as a dragon.

If you are not a dragon yet, the best way to hunt involves 100 lessons and a bastard sword.

There is no good way to hunt as S+B.

Sorry. 

Vallie

Hunted from 1-81 in SnB pre-damage nerf, and post damage nerf I couldn't kill some of the things I hunted before (warthogs) because I just did so little damage. Granted, I did all of this without the ability to clot so there was a timer on how long I could take to kill something - big timer, but still!

I switched to DWC after a week of just trying to force my way through to 82. Got from 82-86ish within the next three days, and then 86-99 was about 2 weeks after. Only artefacts I had were a lv1 crit pendant around 85, and won +1 str gauntlets off of the wheel around there as well.

SnB is really painful

Siphynee

Amazing game design.

Calaurn

I play Infernal SnB. I like its design. I don't recall my level right now, but I am past 85 and high damage criticals are becoming too common. Remember that you also have battlerage to go with your attacks. My one-shot kill is ravage, if it goes critical enough for critters health. I have soulshield (damage immunity turns to deferred damage) to get out of hairy situations or to just press on with attack for final push (great for fighting two mobs with one's death looking imminent; also great if you are defending someone in group, so is deathlink, haven't tested if you can combine all three). As for damage, at 14 strength, I was hitting taryen for 1 or 2 percent a few levels back. Now I hit it for 3, which is still feels ticklish compared to what other classes can do. Then there are benefits from your gear as well as class (fullplate+tower shield, putrefaction, vigour, etc. for me). And it also works out for evil theme (the Infernal SnB). I personally find it satisfying. Now, if they let me swap sword and shield in combination... An evil man can dream.

Aereidhna

The nerf did suck but given the crits post-80 I never had much of an issue hunting SnB with a SoA and maxed for con. If you don't have a SoA or artie sword it may make more sense to swap specs until you are at a higher level, though. I love SnB because I can defend others while hunting, but if you hunt mostly solo I'd give the other specs a try.

Aereidhna

Oh wait you can defend with any spec I think. Damn pre-coffee brain. Still though, unartied the other specs would probably be better at lower levels unless you really want SnB for RP flavor or combat practice or something.

Vallie

SnB used to generally be considered the top spec for hunting, because it did at least as much damage as everything else, hit fast so you can hit/run vs. big mobs, has almost no endurance drain, and was inherently tankier than the other specs. The only thing the nerfs hit was its damage, but this means you're noticeably slower at killing things especially if your crit rate is low. You're still more survivable, except in the case like I was without many lessons (= no clot) because you just can't last that long...but longer fights mean a higher chance of certain mobs outpacing you with their occasional big hits (like keepers).

I think it's probably still fine for hunting artied, but I just would not suggest it otherwise. You'll definitely notice the endurance drain when you first switch to other specs, but it is worth it. Sorry, I know your pain

Nazihk

Knight as a whole has low endurance drain. 2h in specific has negligible drain and can sit at 100% over an entire trip.

I also feel like the shield is overrated by most players for bashing. If you're using a buckler for the speed the defensive bonus is marginal, and even if you're using a heavy shield the defensive bonus is still only helpful against physical damage. The Runewarden chassis is tanky enough without the shield, enough so  that I don't feel like the shield's extra protection should be a serious consideration when deciding on a specialization. 

Liyane

I didn't even know experience drain was a thing for combat until I made an alt

Bann

SnB isn't bad for hunting, it just isn't as fast as the other specs. You're marginally tankier versus physical mobs, but hit for less damage. I used it exclusively until the Tide bashing started. Then, I discovered that those critters would outpace my tankiness, so I went 2h. Haven't looked back since.

Edit for a little more on-topic: The best way to hunt SnB is probably longsword/buckler. I think it's slice/smash or something like that. Not logged in right now to check.

Nazihk

Bann said:

SnB isn't bad for hunting, it just isn't as fast as the other specs. You're marginally tankier versus physical mobs, but hit for less damage. I used it exclusively until the Tide bashing started. Then, I discovered that those critters would outpace my tankiness, so I went 2h. Haven't looked back since.

Edit for a little more on-topic: The best way to hunt SnB is probably longsword/buckler. I think it's slice/smash or something like that. Not logged in right now to check.

A buckler is 2/2.

The tankiness increase that gives you is so marginal that you will not notice it. 

You will absolutely notice the shitty slow kill speed.

Bann

Nazihk said:

Bann said:

SnB isn't bad for hunting, it just isn't as fast as the other specs. You're marginally tankier versus physical mobs, but hit for less damage. I used it exclusively until the Tide bashing started. Then, I discovered that those critters would outpace my tankiness, so I went 2h. Haven't looked back since.

Edit for a little more on-topic: The best way to hunt SnB is probably longsword/buckler. I think it's slice/smash or something like that. Not logged in right now to check.

A buckler is 2/2.

The tankiness increase that gives you is so marginal that you will not notice it. 

You will absolutely notice the shitty slow kill speed.

I mean, sure, except you can runic armour that shit, pretty sure. If not, just gebu/gebo it for a little bit extra.

Sena

Even with runes a buckler isn't going to provide a lot of defence. If the difference in DPS is really significant, the other specs will have better survivability even without a shield due to the fact that they'll kill faster.

An SoA is a different story, but it's still available to other specs (on armour), just with a much higher cost.

Jonathin

woah now, hold up.

I bashed to dragon in post-nerf snb. It's not so bad if you've got an artie longsword and SoA, crit pendant, lucky trait, and lucky elixir.

Puxi

Jonathin said:

woah now, hold up.

I bashed to dragon in post-nerf snb. It's not so bad if you've got an artie longsword and SoA, crit pendant, lucky trait, and lucky elixir.

Still at least 5x slower than 2h.

Nazihk

That same crit pendant, lucky trait, and lucky elixir would get you way more mileage as literally any other specialization.

Lucianus

Bann said:

SnB isn't bad for hunting, it just isn't as fast as the other specs. You're marginally tankier versus physical mobs, but hit for less damage. I used it exclusively until the Tide bashing started. Then, I discovered that those critters would outpace my tankiness, so I went 2h. Haven't looked back since.

Edit for a little more on-topic: The best way to hunt SnB is probably longsword/buckler. I think it's slice/smash or something like that. Not logged in right now to check.

Sena said:

Even with runes a buckler isn't going to provide a lot of defence. If the difference in DPS is really significant, the other specs will have better survivability even without a shield due to the fact that they'll kill faster.

An SoA is a different story, but it's still available to other specs (on armour), just with a much higher cost.

Think there was a change in SoA speed recently. It was in Announce 4634.

Weaponmastery
-------------
* (Dual Blunt) The default weapon proficiency has been changed from FLAIL to MORNINGSTAR. If this affects you in some way due
to artefact purchases or such, contact me and we'll work something out.
* (Two handed) BRAIN now bypasses the SHIELD OF ABSORPTION artefact, like other prone burst damage attacks.
* (Sword and Board) The SHIELD OF ABSORPTION artefact now counts as a buckler for the purposes of the attack shield modifiers.


Longsword + SoA is the best combination for SnB.

Also if you have artefact armour... you can probably get either an auspicious icosagon paragon (20% chance to increase critical hit level that is lower than world-shattering) or crucious paragon (crit multiplier boost on a on-crit basis or a critical failure and deal no damage) to get your bashing damage decent enough to kill big mobs faster.

But who would seriously shell out an extra 2000ish credits on top of an artie longsword and SoA for decent bashing as SnB? Probably cheaper and more productive to learn a second class that can bash quickly.... like Bard.

Aesgar

I managed to make dragon post-nerf as well. I think I was early 80's when it hit (83 tops?).

It was slow after, and the nerfs hurt but I got used to them. I could still do a level a day in the 90's. I find worse than the hunting damage of SnB, is the crit balance. I can't remember which way it is, but I think it's the shield crits that do barely anything in comparison to the sword crits that are at least better in comparison. You'll get a world-shattering crit, and it won't do more than 20% because it hit on your shield, rather than your sword.

Jonathin

I already had SoA. I was not interested in spending more to get artie armour and a absorbtion paragon (and morphing armour if I wanted to use it for another class) and not even be able to use that armour in dragon whereas I can use the SoA in any of my chosen classes + dragon.