Returning player - Monk vs. Blademaster

Eziko

Haven't been apart of the IRE community for over three years now and i'm looking to make a return here in Achaea. Hunting will fill the majority of my time up until level 80( I think that's still the entry level into combat?) where I'd like to get into 1v1 and group combat(mostly 1v1). I have a few questions..

How do both classes fair in hunting (without artefacts)

How do both classes fair in combat (without artefacts & 1v1/Group)

How is the learning curve/mechanics/skill cap?

How do both classes scale with artefacts?

Frederich

Both classes are god awful at hunting currently.  Just as an FYI.  I can't say much outside of that, but Monk is a trainwreck and (hopefully soon) @Makarios will be getting around to fixing up their damage with the thing I sent to him forever ago.  With a ton of artefacts they get respectable at hunting, but that's just my experience from getting the +3 STR/CON stuff, Max Bracelets, max sip ring, etc.  So, I'm pretty sure every class stops sucking for the most part at that point.

Omor

Can only speak for monk.
Monk is god awful, as Fred put it, at hunting without artefacts. Heavily artied, they're all right, but not great. Combat in general monks are pretty good at, group combat with telepathy is sometimes over powered. We scale amazingly well with artefacts. 
Learning curve is.. dependent upon the person. I don't think they're too hard, but it's the first class I learned, so I had a lot of time to dedicate to it. 
Hope this helps, and welcome back.

Hosko

I've got both monk and blademaster and as Frederich and Omor said, both are pretty terrible at hunting, especially unartied. Monk was OP in combat and got nerfed quite a bit in the last few classleads. In my opinion, they got hit too hard and now aren't a particularly great pvp class unartied. They're still decent though and there are some good kill path options that don't get used often enough. Overall, pvp learning curve on monk is probably one of the easiest in game. As for blademaster, their pvp ability definitely makes up for their hunting drawbacks if you're going to be pvp heavy. Bashing is unbearably slow, especially unartied. They're learning curve on pvp isn't as bad as something like serpent or bard, but limb counting with blademaster is a nightmare. Once you get a feel for it, you can work around the limb counting difficulties and there are some really fun options for pvp.

Aerek

• Unfortunately, both are poor hunters in the modern hunting meta. They suffer from low-ish damage and poor damage mitigation. Monk is better than BM in the latter regard, because Monk can use Transmute to help offset its lack of tank.
• Both are very good in combat. Monk is more versatile, good in 1v1 and groups, with several different kill options. Blademaster is less versatile, but more focused; its finisher is extremely difficult to avoid if the BM is good at it.
• Blademaster is a very difficult learning curve. Its limb damage is highly complex, and it often relies on split-second timing that mandates queuing and very precise control. Monk takes a minute to learn all the different kick/punch/punch combos you'll need, and to learn its own limb damage management, but overall it's much easier to grasp.
• Tough call. Blademaster scales ridiculously well with STR+Band to make its already difficult-to-avoid finishers even more inescapable, and its ability to stack CON spec+CON artefacts can make them nigh-damage proof, but they don't really change your playstyle. Monk probably gets more mileage overall out of artefacts because it just has more options in general, and that can open new doors to tactics that you didn't have before, but then again you need more artefacts in total to play with all of those options.

Aegoth

Hosko said:

Monk was OP in combat and got nerfed quite a bit in the last few classleads. In my opinion, they got hit too hard and now aren't a particularly great pvp class unartied.

uhhhhh what have you been smoking? Monk is one of, if not THE top pvp/raid classes without even getting near the skill cap, even unartied. This is especially true for raid monks. Area-wide telepathy (seriously, why is this still a thing?) and kaido (most of which can be used prone) provide some of the nastiest and most devastating tools innthe game. Prone from an SnB leg setup? kai cripple your troubles away, or mind batter them while you deftfully escape your fate. Facing a heavy damage class? transmute and laugh your wounds away! Group combat troubles? spam radiance to disorient the enemy group, or kill that pesky totem holder. Mind throw the team into your trap, or mind isolate the group's target caller. There is absolutely nothing that can top monk in group combat. Nothing. I pray they get rid of area telepathy though

Hosko

Aegoth said:

Hosko said:

Monk was OP in combat and got nerfed quite a bit in the last few classleads. In my opinion, they got hit too hard and now aren't a particularly great pvp class unartied.

uhhhhh what have you been smoking? Monk is one of, if not THE top pvp/raid classes without even getting near the skill cap, even unartied. This is especially true for raid monks. Area-wide telepathy (seriously, why is this still a thing?) and kaido (most of which can be used prone) provide some of the nastiest and most devastating tools innthe game. Prone from an SnB leg setup? kai cripple your troubles away, or mind batter them while you deftfully escape your fate. Facing a heavy damage class? transmute and laugh your wounds away! Group combat troubles? spam radiance to disorient the enemy group, or kill that pesky totem holder. Mind throw the team into your trap, or mind isolate the group's target caller. There is absolutely nothing that can top monk in group combat. Nothing. I pray they get rid of area telepathy though

I wasn't talking raid. PVP it's still good, but it's easier to lock, does less damage from axk (which was way OP, but now takes 6+ kicks on prone/quadbreak, not even a reasonable option compared to BBT so why have it), reduced enfeeble damage, no more kai banish, loss of cripple when impaled (so goodbye most of your prone SnB leg setup escapes), etc. It's by no means a weak class, but certainly not a top PVP class for 1-on-1.

Eziko

Hrm, interesting - the hunting drawbacks are kind of disheartening to tell the truth. What would you recommend a good starter class? I've looked at infernal/runewarden but I don't really care for them. Blademaster has shown the most interests to me but I don't want to be hunting for years to get to level 80/Dragon.

Aerek

To be fair, I would say that all classes are much closer to each other in terms of bashing than they once were, (read: since you last played) so being "bad" at bashing just means they're worse than other classes, not that they really struggle with it. I've bashed in BM, and it's not great, but it does fine. There was a big Weaponry change that made weapon-using classes (unfortunately not BM) into absurdly good bashers, and the rest of the classes kinda sucked. Then bashing was re-balanced overall, which brought the weak bashers up a bit, and brought the OP bashers down a bit. There's still a pecking order, and some classes are still better than others, but overall I'd say the classes are pretty close to each other.

So even though Blademaster and Monk are "bad" at bashing, comparatively, they've still both seen buffs in recent times to help them keep up with others. Blademaster in particular has gotten several buffs to bashing damage, and -just- had its bashing endurance costs reduced. It's in a much better spot now than it used to be! They just aren't as good as classes that can tank anything (Knights) or glass howitzers that can achieve monstrous DPS (Serpent/Bard).

I wouldn't choose a class just for bashing. If you like BM, I'd go for it. You might not win any bashing contests, but you can certainly reach 80 and Dragon with effort.

Tydas

@Eziko Don't worry about the people saying "Blademasters are bad bashers". I switched from Bard to BM and my hunting hasn't slowed at all (except for things that web... God I miss dwinnu). I really enjoy the aesthetics of BM, and I'm loving the class. If it's something attractive to you, go for it. The rest will take care of itself. There are classes that are honestly painful to bash as, and BM isn't one of them.

Atalkez

BM bashing isn't near as bad as its portrayed in the thread. Neither is monk. They both are in the bottom third of classes in terms of raw DPS, but that's not just terrible anymore. Battlerage made things a lot more on part across the board.

Go for aesthetics and flavor over mechanics or min/max details.

Artied BM and Monk can kill about 99% of the game when played well. Unartied BM is probably better than Monk.

Both are solid choices.