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Comments
- Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
"Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
Anathema I'm not sure on the numbers for, or Occies who've lost whatever it is from admin/Babel.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
Anathema is also pretty rare, and unique in that even if you get anathema'd, you can get it removed by whatever player is the Dread Eclair. So even when they do happen, if you follow certain instructions, it should be okay to get removed. I can think of one case where that happened recently. But again, not too common.
Excommunication is definitely the most common of the three, but I think after Cyrene gave Targossas the big middle finger (and any of the consequences that entailed), it mostly dried up and stopped. Assuredly more than "two cases in the last thousand years", but I think that's Anedhel just being sarcastic, because I cover that number all by myself.
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
ETA: Also, wasn't sarcasm, more like hyperbole. But yes, I really do think it's a non-issue these days, unless you really do something to bring it down upon yourself.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Personal requirements:
- Don't act against Good.
- Don't socialize with those that act against Good.
- Don't put yourself in situations that, to an outsider, might look like you're socializing with those that act against Good.
Organizational requirements:- Don't be a member of an organization that acts against Good.
- Don't be a member of an organization that doesn't actually oppose Good, but that Good does not approve of.
- Don't be a member of an organization which does not place your tie to Good above its own defined ethos, resulting in reasonable decisions by that org that, while not specifically opposed to Good, may come into legitimate conflict with Good's aggressive attitude.
- Don't be a member of an organization that for any other reason may irk or be irked by Good and, through a failure of diplomacy by either or both parties, result in a downward spiral of events that culminates in the excommunication of your entire state despite no wrongdoing or act against Good on your individual part.
Unpredictability index:- Mistakes happen.
- Misunderstandings occur.
- Examples must be made.
- "I roleplay a zealot."
Certainty factor:- If you play long enough, and do not play a Targossian insulated against these events, the probability of one of these events occurring approaches 1.
Revised statement:"You may roleplay in any color you like, as long as it's white."
That's what most people are on about.
Also this isn't really the thread to go on about this, there is another one that was specifically made for the topic ya'll discussin.
That doesn't change that the current climate is what it is. In this current structure, why is it difficult to understand that Devotional/Essence pools stem from the Gods tied to that ideology? If you go against that God/ideaology, then you don't get to reap the benefits of that commodity (devo/essence), and most certainly shouldn't delineate into a 'twisted' version of the class. It takes away from the people who do want to play the class and everything that comes with it. If you choose a faction-locked class, you are also accepting to play the way that faction expects you to play. Mhaldor/Targossas are ran purely by their Divine (when they are active, rip). What they say, goes.
While I can understand the arguments that other classes don't have those constraints, and that it can be unfair to the player that has to go through that loss of investment etc; that doesn't change the fact that it's very clear upfront that you are selecting a archetype just as much as a class.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Notice that Forestals almost never complain about the threat of losing Groves/Woodlore, because they're physically incapable of joining factions that have chosen to "oppose" Nature via Alchemists; (The premise is flimsy, but it solved the Mhaldorian Forestal problem!) "Green Excomm" isn't required to keep Forestals in line. Notice that we rarely hear complaints about Occultists losing Domination, because that's God-controlled and only doled out for specifically attacking/betraying the Chaos Lords; it has nothing to do with player factions or ideology. These restrictions I have no problem with. Anathema/Excommunication are the odd men out, because there are fewer restrictions on those classes, grounds for losing your skills exist in a grey sea of subjectivity, and use of that power has been pretty heavy-handed by comparison. (They're only "rare" because we all know better than to risk it. Mhaldor is at least upfront about Anathemizing rogues on sight; Targ has blanket Excommed 5/6 cities while still asserting you "can" play non-Targossian.)
If those classes are supposed to be confined to their respective factions, then they should be mechanically confined to those factions, which is something I've advocated for years now. Leaving them technically available to everyone, but in practice confined to home base by player decree, just causes bad blood when Excom/etc is used, confuses new players who pick the wrong city/class combination because they can, frustrates old players like me that remember when those classes were more free to play unorthodox roles, and spawns these arguments endlessly.
It should be one or the other, but the Admin keep straddling the fence on this, and it does no one any good.
Yes, that is the current standard, but it sure as heck wasn't for quite a long time. Between that and events over the years, it's understandable the less-new people are (and will be) pretty sour about it for a long time to come.
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
Currently, non-fraternisation rules are pretty relaxed, and like I said, I don't think I can actually recall a Targossian that was excommunicated. I get what you're saying about ambiguity regarding the rules for being excommunicated and all, but in practice, since Devotion was made Targossas-only, it's mostly cleared up, hasn't it?
Also, while I get what you're saying about a rogue being able to pick up any class, it seems odd to make a distinction between 'mechanically impossible' and 'admin-sanctioned in-game convention.' Either way, it's an admin-enforced reality, so the fact that you theoretically -could- pick up Devotion as a rogue and then apply and get admitted into Ashtan (with no one noticing any step of the way, which I really doubt!) doesn't really seem like enough of a factor to cause confusion to the degree where it's a problem that comes up very often (can you actually recall any instances of this happening? I can't!).
But, if the prevailing sentiment is 'it used to suck,' then, like I said, not much to discuss there.
What argument can be made that says Necro/Devo pools are supplied by means NOT tied to the respective Divine of that faction? Whether it's player-driven lore (which has many examples of player-driven becoming as close to canon as it gets. Look at the Key for Ashtan, for instance) or original canon is irrelevant.
Ideologies also change over time. Nowhere does it state that x ideology will always let you do y.
It's a logical conclusion to say that classes that use Devotion, should only be usable by those that are aligned with the faction that represents Devotion, being team Good. The same can be said of Mhaldor. There will be people who play in the faction, and deals with the pros/cons of being in that faction, that dislike others being able to have the same abilities with no downside. If everyone has the ability to play the game how they want without the rules of the faction, but still get the abilities that faction gets to have: why play in that faction to begin with? That's the entire point of a factional class, isn't it? To represent that faction?
As to the list of things that can go wrong, and the things that you can/can't do. Keep in mind, there is an entire populace of the city that is..already doing all of that. Why is your play time any different than theirs, in that respect?
Conversations about relaxing factionalization of classes, generally, seem to stem from the want to use the skills without the need to be a part of the faction. All the upside, little downside.
Anyway, this discussion isn't really right in this thread. Welcome to make another thread if you wish to continue discussing it!
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.