Shaman race?

Gror

I understand I don't need offensive stats as a shaman really so I want maximum con. To this end is horkval or dwarf better? Horkval does have one less intelligence though, so unless the resistances are much better than normal armour I think dwarf is probably better, but I'm curious what you guys think. I wish mhun wasn't horrible for shaman, cuz the shaman mhun art is pretty cool. 

On a side note, is it still unlimited reincarnation under lvl 21?

Omor

It is unlimited reincarnate under 21 (unless that was a change I missed in the past 6 months), and horkval armour is seen to be just a bit above leather armour.

Ahmet

Horkval "armour" is better in some scenarios and worse than others, given that it's resistance to blunt and cutting damage, which is calculated separately. Generally ranges in effectiveness from leather armour to just below scalemail in some cases, from what I've seen.

I'm sure Sena will come in and wreck me with her math at some point.

Aylek

Horkval purely for leap or atavian for fly

Gror

Aylek said:

Horkval purely for leap or atavian for fly

Doesn't a good mount cover those skills? Is maximum health -not- the optimum build?

Jonathin

mountjump is great until you're dismounted and need it.

Eta: con is probably the best thing you can go for, but there are other components to survival than just your health pool.

Ahmet

Gror said:

Aylek said:

Horkval purely for leap or atavian for fly

Doesn't a good mount cover those skills? Is maximum health -not- the optimum build?

Covers those, yes. Covers them without lesson cost and investment in the mount itself? No. Covers them while dismounted? No.

Borran

Troll! Then you live in Qurnok and be a witchdoctor!!!

Atalkez

Ahmet said:

Horkval "armour" is better in some scenarios and worse than others, given that it's resistance to blunt and cutting damage, which is calculated separately. Generally ranges in effectiveness from leather armour to just below scalemail in some cases, from what I've seen.

I'm sure Sena will come in and wreck me with her math at some point.

Not sure what you mean here. It's not true resistances like you get from other places.

Message #19251      Sent by Makarios

3/08/18:53 Its armour, not true resists. If you are going horkvall as anything that can wear better 

than leather you're making a mistake.

Gror

Borran said:

Troll! Then you live in Qurnok and be a witchdoctor!!!

Da voodoo mon?

Ahmet

Wut.

When was this changed?

Gror

I hadn't considered atavian. I don't think I can go wrong with dwarf though. If I eventually multiclass a plus con race is pretty good for anything. There should be another +con race in my opinion, especially since one can't even wear armour. Tae'dae come on over plz

Gror

Ahmet said:

Gror said:

Aylek said:

Horkval purely for leap or atavian for fly

Doesn't a good mount cover those skills? Is maximum health -not- the optimum build?

Covers those, yes. Covers them without lesson cost and investment in the mount itself? No. Covers them while dismounted? No.

That's a good point as well. Mounts just don't seem as useful when you aren't a knight witj no balance vault 

Sena

Atalkez said:

Ahmet said:

Horkval "armour" is better in some scenarios and worse than others, given that it's resistance to blunt and cutting damage, which is calculated separately. Generally ranges in effectiveness from leather armour to just below scalemail in some cases, from what I've seen.

I'm sure Sena will come in and wreck me with her math at some point.

Not sure what you mean here. It's not true resistances like you get from other places.

Message #19251      Sent by Makarios

3/08/18:53 Its armour, not true resists. If you are going horkvall as anything that can wear better 

than leather you're making a mistake.

I've definitely confirmed that it wasn't working like armour before. The easiest way to check is with something that isn't reduced by armour but is reduced by resistance, such as backstab (which was reduced by horkval resistances). I don't remember the last time I tested that specifically though (the usual way I confirm the reduction is the same whether it's resistance or armour)

Sena

I just remembered mine and Eld's testing of armour/resistances against denizen damage in January 2015. Armour is somewhat complex and variable there, but overall it's much less than the displayed stats (for example, an average reduction of ~11.5% for ringmail+cavalry, rather than the displayed 21%), while horkval was a more simple and straightforward 9-10% average reduction. If horkval was 10% armour instead of 10% resistance, then the results there don't make much sense. Horkval resistances are also reduced by nimble/quick-witted, while armour isn't.

So even if horkval is something in-between, but closer to armour than resistances, it's still more effective than armour against denizens, where it's comparable to ringmail for blunt damage. Barring some huge unannounced changes recently.

Ahmet

@Sena that discrepancy's because armour only affects either the scaling or flat damage portion of an attack, instead of both, isn't it?

I think.

Sena

I sort of abandoned the project, so I never fully figured out the details. But it seems like denizen attacks have a base damage and then some amount of random variation, and armour applies to the base and the variable part at very different rates, and possibly with each part having its reduction capped separately. Or it could be that body armour only applies to the base damage and shields only apply to the variable damage, or it could be that the attacks I was testing with were a mix of cutting and blunt and that threw off my data, or it's something else entirely.

However it works, armour vs denizen damage seems more complex than armour vs PvP damage. And then horkval remains a pleasantly simple percent reduction, like resistances.

Phaios

Piggybacking here: I'm going to roll a shaman alt and wanted to go grook cuz I don't like troll as a race. I kinda also don't want to be on the troll shaman bandwagon (I R so original, *tips fedora*). How big of a liability is it to lose the 1 con point and the resistances?

Gror

Well electric resistance is rarely going to matter. One less con sucks, but one more int means slightly more damage. 2 less con from dwarf though is more noticeable. 

Ahmet

Gror said:

Well electric resistance is rarely going to matter. One less con sucks, but one more int means slightly more damage. 2 less con from dwarf though is more noticeable. 

Someone's obviously not Mhaldorkian :>