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Multiclass and Race Issues

LeviticusLeviticus Member Posts: 339 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
IDEA:
The Gem of Transmutation is a powerful artefact. Currently, it lets a person change their race and race specialization once per real life day. I believe with the introduction of multiclass this should instead allow the person to change their race once per RL day for each class.

For example, if I changed my class today to a INT grook for Monk. I have to either stay monk for that entire time or deal with INT Grook in my other two classes, which are BM and Bard. The race has a huge effect on all aspects of each class.

This is my idea: To change the Gem of Transmutation to allow one race change per day for each class I am. When I change classes it will also change my race and specialization to whatever it was saved when I changed my class. It also has a seperate cooldown per class. So if I changed to INT Grook on monk, switch classes and was a Horkval Bard, and two minutes later I change back to monk I am a INT Grook for 23 hours and 58 minutes for the monk class. So each class has their own separate cooldown.

Comments

  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 2,315 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I get the reasoning, entirely, I do. But oh gods no. Complete break of immersion. Oh look you're a horkval monk, and now you've unsheathed two scimitars and magically are a troll knight. I really don't like the Gem as is, but this would really push it into ridiculousness.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There'd be literally no difference if the gem is off cd though? Also what's the 'break of immersion'? The gem is an ICly existing item that has the magic power to change your race. That's like saying stormhammer's a break of immersion because surely no one can actually summon lightning.
    AustereAesgar
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,771 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Without commenting on the idea, the proposal is based on an incorrect premise. Each class has its own racial specialisation (str, int, con, or dex), so you'd only be stuck as an intelligence-specced Grook as BM or Bard if, for some absurd reason, you chose that specialisation for them. Otherwise you'll be a whatever specialisation you are Grook instead.

    @Kiet: There would be a difference, though. If I'm Satyr as Paladin and Bard, then reincarnate to Horkval as Bard, the proposal states that I'd automatically switch back to Satyr when I class change back to Paladin (unless I'm misreading). That seems to have nothing to do with the Gem at all, since you could achieve the same thing (on a more permanent basis) using daggers of reincarnation, too.

    I don't particularly mind either way, but if they were going to put in any of the proposals regarding this "issue", I'd rather they divorce stats from races entirely, and simply store stats against each class. Then you're not constantly switching race along with your class.


    AustereShirszaeHalos
  • AmranuAmranu Member Posts: 725 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Having ignored the OP and only read the topic, I agree that multiclass is racist.
    OmorShimiAsmodron
  • ValariaValaria Member Posts: 400 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    DIVERSITY!

    okay i will see myself out...

    Amranu said:
    Having ignored the OP and only read the topic, I agree that multiclass is racist.


    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    True, just divorcing stats from race solves this and a myriad other issues. Implement pls
    Shirszae
  • LeviticusLeviticus Member Posts: 339 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Antonius With that in mind, I should just stay Xoran and change my race specialization for every class. Which is fine but I don't want to be stuck to one race because it has the best min-max value. Yes if you choose a Satyr Paladin and Bard you used your gem for Paladin so it is on CD. You switch to Bard and switch to Horkval and now that is on CD. If you switched back you be Satyr. Is there a problem with that? (Don't mean the offensive tone, trying to learn).

    @Xaden  The Gem is a 300 US Dollar item. That is a lot of money in order to do something that matters. Changing your race specialization and strengths and weaknesses every 24 hours. I think that it could be used to change with what class you are too. It wouldn't add or really subtract anything from the game... If this doesn't get changed the PVP'ers would just stay Xoran. You might ask why don't I just stay Xora. Simply because leather Armour blowsssssssss.

    How can we make this better or should I stop worrying about it?
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You can buy the 2 hour version. Otherwise, you're probably not going to get any better than that.

    On the other hand, yes, please let me pay money to come back from death 12 times instead of one - @Jhui
    Huh. Neat.
    JhuiShirszae
  • LeviticusLeviticus Member Posts: 339 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Ahmet  There is one for 12 hours. Didn't think of the free rezz portion...
  • ValkynValkyn Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I would buy a gem and delve into multiclass if instead of (or as well as) changing your race, it just changed your stats to match a race. (ie make you a 13 str 11 int Atavian. Some of us are kind of attached to our races.

  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Leviticus No. The 1000cr gem is once per 25 hours. The 2000cr gem is once per 2 hours.
    Huh. Neat.
  • KeorinKeorin Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited June 2016
    Valkyn said:
     Some of us are kind of attached to our races.
    Well, apparently some people find watching those of us who do like our race struggle extra with combat to be immersive, sadly.
    KietShirszae
  • ValkynValkyn Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Keorin said:
    Valkyn said:
     Some of us are kind of attached to our races.
    Well, apparently some people find watching those of us who do like our race struggle extra with combat to be immersive, sadly.
    Yeah, but if they can monetise it?

  • KeorinKeorin Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    As much as I hate to admit it, since that should really just be a standard game feature, I would buy the shit out of something like that if it were a bit cheaper (to reflect that changing stats like that probably isn't worth almost as much as a +2 stat artie outright).
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I strongly dislike the idea of entirely divorcing stats from race, but I'd be fine with an artefact that let you use the stats of a different race without changing your race (I actually like that better than the current gem of transmutation).
  • KeorinKeorin Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sena said:
    I strongly dislike the idea of entirely divorcing stats from race, but I'd be fine with an artefact that let you use the stats of a different race without changing your race (I actually like that better than the current gem of transmutation).
    What's the real difference there, though? Either way there are people who will get to divorce stats and race, except it would be behind a paywall. If all we want is the knowledge that races have different physical attributes, why can't we just say that adventurers are exceptional or something?
    Shirszae
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    I love my gem (for the free rezz)... Is a grook dex spec serpent not ideal, sure. Does it explain why I suck, no... Is a xoran int spec monk awesome? Probably. 

    I dont think we need to change it. I am generally able to be that class/race combo I want.



    Borran
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Keorin said:
    What's the real difference there, though? Either way there are people who will get to divorce stats and race, except it would be behind a paywall. If all we want is the knowledge that races have different physical attributes, why can't we just say that adventurers are exceptional or something?
    In my opinion, an item that changes your stats (which we have a lot of already) is very different thematically from naturally having those stats. I'm okay with it being easy to have stats that are unrelated to your race (though I would prefer some differences still), but not with being "born" that way.

    Basically, I don't think "adventurers are exceptional" is a very satisfying explanation for physical attributes being irrelevant, but a powerful magic item is.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,101 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    A powerful magic item that will never come into play or people will acknowledge or refer to in any way whatsoever like with most artefacts?

    People can and will roleplay that they were born that way, and just hide the artefact and pretend it doesn't exist. All the artefact would do is hide the ability behind a paywall.


    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ok  here's the lore: Put a rock in the desert with mystical powers that if you touch it you can pick any race's racial stats. It was made by a troll wizard in ages past and unearthed by a guy with a shovel and some free time.


    ShirszaeCooperShaydeBorran
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kiet said:
    Ok  here's the lore: Put a rock in the desert with mystical powers that if you touch it you can pick any race's racial stats. It was made by a troll wizard in ages past and unearthed by a guy with a shovel and some free time.


    Orrrrr, make the new class able to custom-spec people.
    Huh. Neat.
  • KeorinKeorin Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sena said:
    Keorin said:
    What's the real difference there, though? Either way there are people who will get to divorce stats and race, except it would be behind a paywall. If all we want is the knowledge that races have different physical attributes, why can't we just say that adventurers are exceptional or something?
    In my opinion, an item that changes your stats (which we have a lot of already) is very different thematically from naturally having those stats. I'm okay with it being easy to have stats that are unrelated to your race (though I would prefer some differences still), but not with being "born" that way.

    Basically, I don't think "adventurers are exceptional" is a very satisfying explanation for physical attributes being irrelevant, but a powerful magic item is.
    I can certainly see where you're coming from. Races should have physical differences, at least lore-wise, and I understand that some people like these being reflected somehow in the mechanics.

    Where I tend to disagree is that I think once we've decided that those differences should be able to be addressed, be it with current stat artifacts, or with an artifact that lets you adopt a different stat set, or whatever, then we're all sort of agreeing that actually maintaining those differences isn't as important. The fact that the differences exist in mechanics is more important then those differences actually being perceivable (which they usually aren't outside of combat).

    And if this is the case, then I'm not sure why racial stat differences shouldn't fall in the same bucket as all the other game mechanics deemed not worth it despite the potential for immersion. Carry limits, the ability to have one's inventory filled with tons of random crap and still use both hands in a fight (and heck, the weirdness of all the activities that go in combat, too), actual weather mechanics, etc. are all things that we don't have mechanically, even though we don't pretend that those things don't exist in the world. No one claims that their ability to carry hundreds of heavy corpses makes it so they can lift buildings, for instance, even if that's what it might suggest. Racial stats have a different treatment, though, and that's what I don't understand. 
  • LeviticusLeviticus Member Posts: 339 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I was wrong the 2000 cr Gem is 2hours. That kind of solves my problem for the price of 500 dollars.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Leviticus said:
    I was wrong the 2000 cr Gem is 2hours. That kind of solves my problem for the price of 500 dollars.
    Achaea is a cruel mistress, and your wallet is her bitch.
    Huh. Neat.
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Ahmet said:
    Leviticus said:
    I was wrong the 2000 cr Gem is 2hours. That kind of solves my problem for the price of 500 dollars.
    Achaea is a cruel mistress, and your wallet is her bitch.
    I can upgrade my first artefact? ?? 



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