Some 2H questions

Kalithea

Hi there, had a couple questions about the best way to go about things (some of it script related)

I perceive on my attack aliases, so it ends up being a huge flood of text. Should I instead be triggering perceive on when attacks land? Or should I funnel trigger it out to a GUI component? (I'm competent enough at scripting to do either) -- does there exist an on prompt tracker for it?

as a 20 year old, tri trans, with a lv0 bastard and in siren (so 15str/14con runed) -- do I stand a chance? I don't really want to swap races for another strength, but I guess I could -- or should I just throw money at the problem and get an artefact bastard? Or throw even more money at the problem and get a belt? (keeping in mind lesson wise im tri trans, up to mountjump in riding, up to tumble/fitness) Is your possible PK ceiling affected by your willingness to min/max and throw money at the problem? Or can someone really good unartefacted compete.

How many fractures will typically let me get a double DSB off? Is it 6? or 7?

Hugalaz is the rune to go for on the blade? Envenoming curare to keep them in one place? 

Should I be focusing precision with my lack of damage or should I be using speed? Or should I script it to swap it up on the fly.

When should I be engaging? Should I have it as part of my attack line? or just do it at the start of the fight / trigger it off of DSB as a backup?

What do I do against aff classes? I'm obviously gonna get whipped if i sit there trying to sketch runes on the ground. Do  I run and turtle up with stonewalls/build a room up how I want rune wise?

I forgot Falcons are a thing and will be getting one tomorrow. How do I work those into an attack?


Thank you!

edit: some of this could be construed as a bellyache, it's not. It's someone genuinely interested in getting better. Young and got a long way to go but never hurts to be pointed in the right direction.

Kalithea

Er I meant gauntlets but sure belt too

Cynlael

Double dsb requires 6 torn tendons,
  2 = 2 lv1 (mending) breaks, 4 = 2 lv2 (restoration->mending) breaks, 6 = 2 lv3 (double restoration->mending) breaks.

Hugalaz, yes. Curare is an easy go-to venom as well, yes. You can also prefarar on underhand, which you should be aiming to do a couple times at least, to increase their sip balance (which'll also give relapsing sensitivity)

Falcons are as simple as DROP FALCON;FALCON SLAY <person> before starting combat.

Engage, you lose nothing by adding it to all of your attacks. BATTLEFURY FOCUS <whatever>/UNDERHAND <target> CURARE / ENGAGE <target> for instance.

You can definitely do just fine as 2hander with 15 strength. Versus artied people, the chance decreases, but it is still very much possible if you're not just tunnel visioning on tendons, and going for overhand/underhand to affect their sip balance/amounts.

Precision (so I've heard) can be great for getting initial fractures up, or against low hp people who'll be sipping much sooner regardless. Speed is great either way; especially if Hugalaz procs.

As for perceive, I basically just triggered to do it whenever I got battlefury balance. It requires battlefury, but doesn't consume it.

Kenway

My attacks are
Recover footing/falcon slay/perceive/focus/attack/engage
And i also trigger perceive on regaining battlefury though i gag the whole thing and send the information to my prompt (easy enough to do but i can just send you my script if it helps)

Cynlaels info here is slightly out of date.
Devastate levels are:
1-3 = level 1 breaks (mending)
4-6 = level 2 breaks (resto/mend)
7 = level 3 breaks
Should also be noted that if you use devastate when one of their limbs is already broken(resto), it adds a level to that break. This doesnt work for the 1-3 tier but 4-6 will push an already broken limb to level 3.

On arties and such,
Id describe PK in the following tiers:
Low -people just starting, probably missing some key skills
Midbie -these guys understand the concept of what theyre going for pretty much, not missing anything vital, probably lacking knowledge on other classes somewhat
Mid -has a good grasp of counterplay and defense, different strategies and kill paths, understand afflictions and limb damage, maybe a few low end arties, skill is what wins the fights in this tier.
High -start getting into some bigger names here, people are cunning and smart and know what youre thinking almost as well as you do because they understand your class. This is where combat starts getting a little weird. Arties can start really pushing people ahead of others either through raw power or through opening up options that the opponent cant cope with as well. You can definitely lose to someone you could normally beat just cause theyre decked out in toys here. Not to imply theyre not -also- good, but in this group, arties can be a deciding factor.
Top -Jhui
Kidding, top tier is the best of the best with the best of the best arties. They sure as hell dont need their toys to kick your ass and make you feel bad about yourself, but they sure as hell have them.

Curare doesnt do much to stop your target as a two-hander. Its really there to make them eat bloodroot instead of kelp or ginseng which lets your fractures build up relapses on them for extra damage. The prefarar tip is a good one but i also find that slipping in a darkshade or euphorbia now and then helps a lot. They both hurt, theyre both increased by sensitivity, and nausea will allow you to overhand theough their parry. They are also both ginseng affs so they get buried easily in the relapsing lethargy and curare hews.

It would be wise to be able to swap at will between hammer and sword and speed and focus.

Assuming youre in the arena and not dueling at nont or something, its perfectly acceptable if you two decide to start in the same room to drop your runes and such before you start. Bards, devotionists, magi, necromancers all tend to do their equivalents so you can too. Just make sure you dont enemy them till you start! So against aff classes make sure youve got a dagaz down as one of your three! Aff classes also tend to be on the squishier side and depend a lot on their own speed so focusing speed and going after their arms can really trash their setup. Additionally, swapping to a hammer and prepping(limb damage not fractures) their leg is a good idea since you can then use it as a quick save for yourself by breaking it with upset (also netting you a precision overhand). Remember that you can prep their limbs for bursts of momentum like this so dont be afraid to run and lose your fractures, you can get them back. If you do have to run, setting up a room with wunjo/nairat, sketching two thurisaz then a hugalaz can, if timed right, have them walk into a nasty burst of damage, unable to move or parry. If you have them prepped, theyre dead, if not theyre still dead or close to it.

Kenway

For some reason the end of my thing got cut off so shorter version of it:

Always use sword for carve and devastate cause it keeps the same speed as the hammer for those attacks but has its damage and venom advantage still.

And then i said have fun.

It was all very nice and well worded.

Fuk mobile forums.

Kalithea

Kenway said:

For some reason the end of my thing got cut off so shorter version of it:

Always use sword for carve and devastate cause it keeps the same speed as the hammer for those attacks but has its damage and venom advantage still.

And then i said have fun.

It was all very nice and well worded.

Fuk mobile forums.

Thank you both for your insights! @Kenway @Cynlael it's helped me a lot.

IF you don't mind sharing Kenway, I'd take that prompt script, otherwise I'll read up on SVO's api.

Thought of one more as I slept!

- When is the appropriate time to use fury? Start of fight or devastate?

Sarathai

Kenway said:

top tier is the best of the best with the best of the best arties

Also Mizik.

Cynlael

Kalithea said:

Kenway said:

For some reason the end of my thing got cut off so shorter version of it:

Always use sword for carve and devastate cause it keeps the same speed as the hammer for those attacks but has its damage and venom advantage still.

And then i said have fun.

It was all very nice and well worded.

Fuk mobile forums.

Thank you both for your insights! @Kenway @Cynlael it's helped me a lot.

IF you don't mind sharing Kenway, I'd take that prompt script, otherwise I'll read up on SVO's api.

Thought of one more as I slept!

- When is the appropriate time to use fury? Start of fight or devastate?

Fury when they're impaled (when you do it, not when you get balance back)

His script is in his forum signature. But it's here. He has the forum thread for it somewhere in the scripting part of the forums.

Sobriquet

I fury slightly before the impale to give some extra damage during the final part of the set up. I'm not around much anymore but if you do catch me I'm happy to help out where I can

Cooper

Fury lasts 15 minutes. Should use it the whole fight most of the time!

Antonius

Kenway said:

Cynlaels info here is slightly out of date.
Devastate levels are:
1-3 = level 1 breaks (mending)
4-6 = level 2 breaks (resto/mend)
7 = level 3 breaks

This isn't correct. You get a level 3 break (mangled) at 6 or 7 fractures. Damaged is 4 or 5.

Source: Literally just tested it.

Kenway

Antonius said:

Kenway said:

Cynlaels info here is slightly out of date.
Devastate levels are:
1-3 = level 1 breaks (mending)
4-6 = level 2 breaks (resto/mend)
7 = level 3 breaks

This isn't correct. You get a level 3 break (mangled) at 6 or 7 fractures. Damaged is 4 or 5.

Source: Literally just tested it.

Weird when i was testing earlier my dummy reported 2 2s at 6. Mustve dropped down to 5 without my noticing! Thanks!

Kenway

Cynlael said:

Kalithea said:

Kenway said:

For some reason the end of my thing got cut off so shorter version of it:

Always use sword for carve and devastate cause it keeps the same speed as the hammer for those attacks but has its damage and venom advantage still.

And then i said have fun.

It was all very nice and well worded.

Fuk mobile forums.

Thank you both for your insights! @Kenway @Cynlael it's helped me a lot.

IF you don't mind sharing Kenway, I'd take that prompt script, otherwise I'll read up on SVO's api.

Thought of one more as I slept!

- When is the appropriate time to use fury? Start of fight or devastate?

Fury when they're impaled (when you do it, not when you get balance back)

His script is in his forum signature. But it's here. He has the forum thread for it somewhere in the scripting part of the forums.

Dont use that one i need to update it! Ill send you a link

Kalithea

Ok! Thanks!

Indecided to take the plunge and get a level 1 bastard sword to start and maybe upgrade it as I go but yay new shinies

Kenway

Kalithea said:

Ok! Thanks!

Indecided to take the plunge and get a level 1 bastard sword to start and maybe upgrade it as I go but yay new shinies

Mind if i use you for some limb damage tests? Wanna get each weapon level down accurately just cause of the way the combined limb tracking/fracture display works

Kalithea

Kenway said:

Kalithea said:

Ok! Thanks!

Indecided to take the plunge and get a level 1 bastard sword to start and maybe upgrade it as I go but yay new shinies

Mind if i use you for some limb damage tests? Wanna get each weapon level down accurately just cause of the way the combined limb tracking/fracture display works

Not at all poke me when you see me in game 

Mizik

Sarathai said:

Kenway said:

top tier is the best of the best with the best of the best arties

Also Mizik.

#hasbeen

Kalithea

Some moar questions! Enjoying the hell out of runewarden though and actually got a couple arena wins so yay.

- can you use falcon in the arena? Does the poultry have to be on your wrist when you go in?

- how do I break the torso? I'm aware I hit it enough, but is that guesswork since I assume if the other person doesn't know it's broken neither will I? 

- right now I just kind of sit there and hack away at someone, but against classes like apostate unless I keep the leg pressure on and don't swap to head or torso I seek to get overwhelmed with afflictions even with dagaz, I'm assuming I should be running and making them lose their progress?

is it bad form to drop my ground tunes before I start a fight? I've been keeping to doing it after we start but people drop rites and whatnot when I duel
before we start so I'm unsure here.

Thank you!

Cynlael

Kalithea said:

- can you use falcon in the arena? Does the poultry have to be on your wrist when you go in?
You can. And no, just call it while outdoors.

- how do I break the torso? I'm aware I hit it enough, but is that guesswork since I assume if the other person doesn't know it's broken neither will I? 
Don't really need to as 2hander, warhammer will break it the quickest though.

- right now I just kind of sit there and hack away at someone, but against classes like apostate unless I keep the leg pressure on and don't swap to head or torso I seek to get overwhelmed with afflictions even with dagaz, I'm assuming I should be running and making them lose their progress?
I would pay to see a 2hander knight beat a proficient Apostate.

is it bad form to drop my ground tunes before I start a fight? I've been keeping to doing it after we start but people drop rites and whatnot when I duel before we start so I'm unsure here.
You can. Dagaz at the very least, though a lot of people won't mind if you just pop all of them down.

Thank you!

Antonius

Falcons are capable of being recalled across planes, provided you're in an outdoors room, so you don't need to have it with you when you enter the arena (you'd just need to find an outdoors room inside the arena to recall it). Yes, you can use it inside.

You hit it repeatedly. How many hits it takes to break depends on what weapon you're using (both the damage stat and the damage type - warhammers are blunt damage so they deal considerably more limb damage) and how much health your opponent has. Generally speaking, you'll do some testing to find out how many hits it takes in order to break somebody with a given amount of health; once you can narrow down the point at which it breaks you can then compare that to your target's health. Bear in mind that precision hits deal half limb damage, so if you test using speed (or no focus) and it takes 8 hits, that's 16 hits using precision.

Affliction classes like Apostate are built on momentum, so you can't generally just stand their and cure them (unless you're very good at adjusting curing priorities and they're not great at using afflictions competently). Wrist fractures as two-handed will help, since the relapsing affliction is lethargy which increases the time it takes to recover balance and equilibrium. Clumsiness from torn tendons should also help since it does something to deadeyes (I think also increases balance recovery?), if I recall correctly. Run away if you need to in order to survive, though it will reset your momentum on fractures a bit too.

Depends on your opponent. If they're setting up their room effects, go ahead and do the same. Personally, I don't usually lay rites ahead of time as Paladin, but would play Harmonics ahead of time as Bard. That's mostly just a time concern, though; I only need a couple of key rites as Paladin, and can still attack (though more slowly) while laying them. As Bard a full set takes considerably longer and that's all I'm doing.

Kalithea

Cynlael said:

Kalithea said:

- can you use falcon in the arena? Does the poultry have to be on your wrist when you go in?
You can. And no, just call it while outdoors.

- how do I break the torso? I'm aware I hit it enough, but is that guesswork since I assume if the other person doesn't know it's broken neither will I? 
Don't really need to as 2hander, warhammer will break it the quickest though.

- right now I just kind of sit there and hack away at someone, but against classes like apostate unless I keep the leg pressure on and don't swap to head or torso I seek to get overwhelmed with afflictions even with dagaz, I'm assuming I should be running and making them lose their progress?
I would pay to see a 2hander knight beat a proficient Apostate.

is it bad form to drop my ground tunes before I start a fight? I've been keeping to doing it after we start but people drop rites and whatnot when I duel before we start so I'm unsure here.
You can. Dagaz at the very least, though a lot of people won't mind if you just pop all of them down.

Thank you!

I find against people who know what they are doing it's harder to secure two disembowels because they will tumble out.

So I was thinking the damage scaling per Antonius signature would help there.

Kenway

Kalithea said:

Cynlael said:

Kalithea said:

- can you use falcon in the arena? Does the poultry have to be on your wrist when you go in?
You can. And no, just call it while outdoors.

- how do I break the torso? I'm aware I hit it enough, but is that guesswork since I assume if the other person doesn't know it's broken neither will I? 
Don't really need to as 2hander, warhammer will break it the quickest though.

- right now I just kind of sit there and hack away at someone, but against classes like apostate unless I keep the leg pressure on and don't swap to head or torso I seek to get overwhelmed with afflictions even with dagaz, I'm assuming I should be running and making them lose their progress?
I would pay to see a 2hander knight beat a proficient Apostate.

is it bad form to drop my ground tunes before I start a fight? I've been keeping to doing it after we start but people drop rites and whatnot when I duel before we start so I'm unsure here.
You can. Dagaz at the very least, though a lot of people won't mind if you just pop all of them down.

Thank you!

I find against people who know what they are doing it's harder to secure two disembowels because they will tumble out.

So I was thinking the damage scaling per Antonius signature would help there.

I almost always go for a torso dsb. People tend not to bother checking torso against 2h and being able to kill them from 4 leg fractures tends to surprise people.

Armali

If they tumble out and you have the leg breaks, chase and DSB them again.

Torso breaking is definitely useful though. It's a core strategy for DWC and SnB. 2h is just spoiled, really.

Counting limbs as 2H isn't /necessary/ but it sure makes your life /easier/. Knowing that you can break/upset instead of focus/break -> upset can buy you a lot of breathing room against a momentum class, especially since warhammers can break fairly quickly (not monk quickly, but quickly enough). This helps address you, 'I'm having a problem against momentum classes' issues.

Clumsiness affects knights, Monks, Bards, Blademasters, Sentinels, Shamans, and Apostates. It gives them a chance to miss their main bread and butter attacks.

Liyane

Cynlael said:

 You can also prefarar on underhand, which you should be aiming to do a couple times at least, to increase their sip balance (which'll also give relapsing sensitivity)

Ignorant question: Don't prefarar and underhand do the same thing: give sensitivity? What's the benefit of doing both?

Aquil

Liyane said:

Cynlael said:

 You can also prefarar on underhand, which you should be aiming to do a couple times at least, to increase their sip balance (which'll also give relapsing sensitivity)

Ignorant question: Don't prefarar and underhand do the same thing: give sensitivity? What's the benefit of doing both?

It will always cure deafness first. Can't have sensi without deafness being stripped first.

Kyrra

Liyane said:

Cynlael said:

 You can also prefarar on underhand, which you should be aiming to do a couple times at least, to increase their sip balance (which'll also give relapsing sensitivity)

Ignorant question: Don't prefarar and underhand do the same thing: give sensitivity? What's the benefit of doing both?

Underhand targets the torso specifically and those breaks increase sip balance in a similar way that Overhand targets the head and can give concussions. 

Or something.

Liyane

It will always cure deafness first. Can't have sensi without deafness being stripped first.

Thanks! This is the part of the equation I was missing. Makes sense now.

Ugh excuse the atrocious mobile forum quote editing. 

Noak

Unless things changed from when I played then overhand wrecks people who forget to parry head.

Antonius

That's still the case. Parrying head against two-handed is generally a requirement unless you're able to prevent them from attacking you much at all.

Liyane

That's good to know. I've been going it one at a time to learn the attacks so -> hew/devastate now underhand so I will start writing an overhand attack next. Any venom recommendations for overhand?

Antonius

Curare (paralysis) is going to force them to eat bloodroot rather than curing an affliction from fractures, and will prevent them from running, attacking, and touching tree if they're already off herb balance, so it's always a solid choice.