Multiclass Comparison

Asmodron · May 2016

The multiclass system in Achaea seems to have such a steep price when compared with other IRE. As it currently stands, the lesson to new class ratio cost is:

Class                Lessons to transcendent
--------------------------------------------
Primary class        1738 lessons per skill (290 cr per) (870 cr total)
2nd class              2500 lessons per skill (416 per) (1248 cr total)
3rd class             3335 lessons per skill (556 per) (1668 cr total)
4th class+             5000 lessons per skill (833 cr per) (2499 cr total)

Additionally, these are the following restrictions:

Gain class slots at level 80, 100 and every 10 after
May switch every 12 hours (unless purchase artifact)
You must be transcendent in all your current class skills in order to switch to another class.

When compared to other games, for example.

In Lusternia:

Must have permission from a guild in order to gain their skills
Costs 200 lessons (plus ~150 lessons to 'activate' skills) to switch from class to class (unless get artifact that makes it cost 0)
May only switch class every 300 hours (unless purchase artifact for every 75 hours)
No extra cost for learning new skills.
No skill rank requirement to gain more classes

In Aetolia:

Must have 2 Transcendent class skills or 3 virtuoso class skills in current class
Must acquire class from member of guild or pay 40 credits to gain from non-member
Only able to switch once every 12 hours (unless purchase artifact)
All players gain 1 free class slot. May purchase more class slots (100, 200, 200, 300+)

In Imperian:

Must learn new class from a Master
May switch freely between classes (of same faith circle) but must relearn skills slowly (no cost)
No extra cost to learning new skills
(Im a bit fuzzy on imperian, if this is incorrect, let me know)

Does anyone else feel this is unbalanced in our favor?

While I admit that gaining new slots for free and not needing to wait as long (12 hours) is a nice perk, I honestly and personally would prefer a longer wait time rather than the crazy lesson costs im seeing. Additionally, a lot of us will only generally get 1 maaaaybe 2 other classes, and usually we would get the other 1 for a purpose our current class isnt able to achieve very well (such as better hunting). This is why the idea of paying for slots and having normal lesson fees is much more appealing to a lot of us, rather than gaining them for free and paying crazy lesson amounts.

Any chance we could see the lesson costs diluted and some other calibrating done?

Antonius · May 2016

You haven't mentioned that you can buy additional slots in Achaea (at 250 credits each). Not sure if that's because you're not aware, forgot or are intentionally trying to paint as bad a picture as possible.

The costs are fine. Most people only picking up one or two extra classes seemed to be the intention.

Omor · May 2016

Antonius said:

You haven't mentioned that you can buy additional slots in Achaea (at 250 credits each). Not sure if that's because you're not aware, forgot or are intentionally trying to paint as bad a picture as possible.

The costs are fine. Most people only picking up one or two extra classes seemed to be the intention.

Not trying to pick a fight, but the guy with the most classes saying the costs are fine doesn't say a whole lot. I don't think the costs are terrible, having three classes, but I can see how when you start thinking you want all the classes, it's kinda daunting.
2499cr, to trans the 4th class and beyond, is.. what, $700? Not including promotions and whatnot. That's pretty expensive for a class.
On the other hand though, if you don't want to pay that much, just stick with one class. -shrug- I can see both sides of the argument.

Antonius · May 2016

If you start thinking you want all the classes, you also have to start thinking that it's going to cost you a lot, and either decide you're willing to pay the price or not. That's no different from thinking you want all of the artefacts, or (even worse) all of the languages at perfect fluency, or a house that's a thousand rooms and/or has a ton of expensive upgrades, etc.

I think the costs are fine because they're doing what I believe they were intended to do: allow people to pick up an extra class (or maybe two), but require those who do want all of them to have to pay a lot to do so.

Asmodron · May 2016

But if you consider an achaea player picking up 2-3 classes compared to those in others, you can see the large disparity. Additionally, take into consideration the 'idea' of getting artefacts for those classes. Artefacts in Achaea play quite a part when compared.

I honestly do wonder if we could reduce the lesson costs but add other variables such as purchasing 'slots' (over 2) and perhaps a cost of lessons to switch between a class.

Mindshell · May 2016

I am happy with the model of can has everythings when I wants it.

Antonius · May 2016

Asmodron said:

I honestly do wonder if we could reduce the lesson costs but add other variables such as purchasing 'slots' (over 2) and perhaps a cost of lessons to switch between a class.

I'm sure we could, but you've yet to provide a compelling reason why we should. Pointing at other games is irrelevant; Achaea is not those games (and, to be honest, appears to have the best system of the lot, from my point of view). Your only argument seems to be "I want this to be cheaper.", without considering whether what you're actually getting is better.

Lusternia is cheaper, but the cooldown on switching (at best 75 hours) makes it much worse. Imperian is cheaper, but relearning skills slowly over time (rather than instantly having access to the new ones) makes it much worse. Aetolia may or may not be cheaper and better depending on how much the slot costs stack and whether the artefact reduces the cooldown on switching to nothing.

Marisella · May 2016

You have to look at how entwined the classes in each IRE mud are, especially in relation to factions and organisations. I personally like how Achaea handled multiclass. It's much more straightforward to understand and gain new classes (you go through Certimene instead of gaining permission/approaching someone for the class).

You also get free class slots upon reaching certain levels, which is a big motivation for me to gain in levels instead of outright purchasing one. I also have limited funds to draw from, and had to transcend the Striking skillset that I've put off learning forever because I don't really combat, just so I can get my second class.

That is okay with me though because I feel like the 'be tri-transed in current class' restriction makes roleplay sense. If you can't even 'master' the knowledge of your current class, what makes you think you can handle learning another class? Something like that.

Aesi · May 2016

I wish the scale factor was a little more marginal, but I see no issues with the system.

Currently it's more cost effective for me, without artefacts, just to swap my slot 1 to what I want, and I'm fine with that. Nothing is requiring me to hold multiple classes

Kiet · May 2016

Lusternia's system is awful not sure why you'd say that's better.

Texel · May 2016

You can still Play a fully transcendent new class at a highly discounted rate by making a new character.

Cynlael · May 2016

Achaea's also has more people playing it. You can bet pretty heavily, that if the other games had it how we have it, they probably wouldn't have more than a handful multiclassing. They need it the way they have it, so that money can actually be made off it. They have a LOT less 'big spenders' than Achaea has.

Cooper · May 2016

I mean, they made over $5000 on Antonius alone. Granted he's the outlier, but still, that's a fuck ton of money.

Szanthax · May 2016

I know right...

Khel · May 2016

Yeah Aetolia has the best multi-class system hands-down. I can change class every hour, costs the same to trans, and even with the stacking cr cost of unlocking classes, because of tethers you only wind up having 7 of 14 classes to play. Also shapeshifter is a 'freebie', not counting towards your slots and getting 66% of your guild's primary skill lessons applied towards it as well for their 2 primary skills, leaving you to trans 1.66 skills instead of 3. With Achaea, at every tier, pretty sure you spend much more. 1700 to 2500 (rounding yay) is an increase of 800 PER SKILL, *3 = 2400 lessons or ~400cr more expensive for your second class than Aetolia's free, 1700 to transx3 class. Aaand it only gets worse from there, I suspect.