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More Races!

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  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Hmmm. Guess I can see the issue. What if (someday) they released two races, Undead and something else that was acceptable in factions like Eleusis and Targ? What would you guys like to see that might not work so well in a faction like Mhaldor, but is acceptable for BOTH Eleusis and Targ? Meaning a treekin or something like that would be too Eleusian.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • ElipiseElipise
    Blujixapug said:

    An innately hermaphroditic race would be interesting

    Or a genderless race
    I love both of these... so very much.
    Torinn Chiragh, Herald of Fire says, "Good, darn it."
    Talamond Averial says, "You are the least charming siren ever."
  • KietKiet
    The problem with races that can't be in all cities is then you can't switch cities and most people do eventually switch!
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Oh somehow I missed that one. That would be kind of interesting. How would that work with the bloodlines system?
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • UtianimaUtianima Norway and Austria
    Mothkin!



    Artist source:
    http://www.deviantart.com/art/Jester-on-Wings-288724372

  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Or a horkval with customised eagle/atavian wings. 
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • DortheronDortheron
    Tsol'teth, the drow of Achaea. Bam! Problem solved
    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Dortheron said:
    Tsol'teth, the drow of Achaea. Bam! Problem solved
    I don't know a lot about them. Would they be allowed in all cities?
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • SarathaiSarathai
    Some sort of goblinoid creature might be plausible as a new race, though there's a certain degree of historical animosity with orcs for Eleusis (that Dun Valley thing, setting several forests on fire, etc.). From what I recall, goblinoids were originally supposed to be much smarter/more civilised until the Tsol'teth started experimenting on them down in the Underdarkrealm. So opening up new entrances to it might work as part of an introduction.

    We haven't heard much of that place in a while now, come to think of it.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • TahquilTahquil
    Im going to bet on pygmies as part of the evolution of the trial.
  • GrandueGrandue
    A construct race, could come from clockwork isle or something. 

    Ratfolk.

    Gargoyle type race.

    The beast-type race could actually be pretty easily done with specs. The different specs would determine what type of beast-form you are. Strength spec could be a bull hybrid, int spec could be monkey, etc.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Grandue said:
    A construct race, could come from clockwork isle or something. 

    Ratfolk.

    Gargoyle type race.

    The beast-type race could actually be pretty easily done with specs. The different specs would determine what type of beast-form you are. Strength spec could be a bull hybrid, int spec could be monkey, etc.
    Monkey would 100% be dex spec.
    Huh. Neat.
  • BlujixapugBlujixapug
    Kayeil said:

    There are plenty of in-game areas and things from the lore to draw inspiration from, so I'm excited to see what the admins end up picking.
    I think this point is interesting because I sort of think races need to stand apart from their own culture.

    When a newbie rolls a new character, they're prompted to pick a name, gender, and race. But if they haven't yet played the game, they don't know anything about Arcadia, or Moghedu, or - hypothetically - Istarion, or the Underworld, or Annwyn, or the confrontingly vast tapestry of triton lore. They're going on one short sentence in the pre-intro, and if that catches their attention then maybe a paragraph-long blurb summarising, "The Sileg are a genderless race of mushroom people from the vast, uncharted caverns of the untamed southern continent. Beginning life as a cluster of spores, and recycling their dead, their race has little concept of individual identity. They have pale, spongey skin, black eyes, and from their craniums grow great mushroom caps, several feet across, in a variety of shapes, colours, and patterns that vary from tribe to tribe."

    If you made Tsol'dasi a race for example, you can't fully summarise everything about Istarion, the Tsol'aa/Tsol'dasi/Tsol'teth trichotomy, the mythos and histories, Seleucar etc, in a paragraph, so you end up condensing it down into, "These guys are like tsol'aa but way cooler." And then players aren't actually cooler because they lack the racial homeland, isolation, mystery, and spider mounts that make them cooler.

    This is a meandering way of getting to my point which is I think for races to be good, they need to stand mainly on the intrinsic merits of their base concept: tiger people. Feather-winged humans. Frog people. Dwarves. Those all have strong, immediate connotations, often based on existing fiction, that people can attach to and project their ideas onto. That carries them along until whatever time - possibly months after character creation, if ever - they get around to learning about what dwarves are in Achaea, the Kongol Drak and ten tribes and Phaestus and Blackrock and the rest of it.

    I think racial areas are great ways to support races, giving them culture, mannerisms, spoken phrases, and history. But I don't think it works the opposite way: translating a complex NPC culture (eg. Vertani) into a player race sheds all the complexity that makes them appealing.

    That doesn't really count against any of the suggestions in this thread, except maybe tritons. Nobody even suggested Tsol'dasi.
    image
  • LucianusLucianus
    Blujixapug I think you're also the first person to mention Vertani in this thread. There has been several generations who've lived on Sapience apart from their main culture on that isolated fortress of theirs.
    That is not an ordinary star, my son. That star is the tear of a warrior. A lost soul who has finished his battles somewhere on this planet. A pitiful soul who could not find his way to the lofty realm where the great spirit awaits us all.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Okay some of those have obvious connotations, but what about mhun and tsol'aa? A lot of people still to this day mistake tsol'aa as elves with pointy ears, even though the admins have pointed out they're not elves and not born with pointy ears, but they're constantly described this way. Mhun kind of resemble humans and other humanoid races.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • DortheronDortheron
    Blujixapug said:
     Those all have strong, immediate connotations, often based on existing fiction, that people can attach to and project their ideas onto.
    So true. I still see newbies (and some oldbies) with pointy elf ears or something similar with Tsol'aa, even though they aren't elves and aren't suppose to have the pointy ears. People mentally translate tsol'aa=tolken elf
    Kayeil said:
    Dortheron said:
    Tsol'teth, the drow of Achaea. Bam! Problem solved
    I don't know a lot about them. Would they be allowed in all cities?

    Drow is a D&D race of "underground" or "dark" elves that was later expanded on by future editions, campaigns, settings, and even novels. While Drow are normally seen as "evil" and used as villians, although it is more of a cultural/environment factor for why they are evil and not "just because". There are physical differences between elves and drow, these differences do not inherently make drow evil. Drow and other similar races are most likely the biggest inspiration for the nature and situation, of not the physical appearance for Tsol'teth (since I can't remember what Tsol'teth look like).

    Tsol'teth would be treated like Tsol'aa and Atavians; they are not intrinsically against any city ideology as long as a distinction between race and cultural heritage is made (like Atavians are not rejected by Cyrene because of their origins from Vastar, Tsol'aa from Mhaldor because of their forestal origins).
    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
  • TreyTrey
    Tsol'teth wouldn't make a great PC race. Historically they are reasonably powerful Big Bads, and they'd either be watered down to the point of insignificance, or you'd get plenty of people hopping on the bandwagon. Either way, my personal vote would be to keep them as NPCs and plot devices.

  • DortheronDortheron
    Trey said:
    Tsol'teth wouldn't make a great PC race. Historically they are reasonably powerful Big Bads, and they'd either be watered down to the point of insignificance, or you'd get plenty of people hopping on the bandwagon. Either way, my personal vote would be to keep them as NPCs and plot devices.
    No more watered down than Vertani, sidhe/unsidhe, or some of the other suggestions made. While it's true they've been Big Bads in the past, so were Vertani in their introduction and destruction of Thera and you can't discount the strength of Sidhe/Unsidhe even though they've never really flexed their muscles to any major significance that I'm aware of. Just like Ugrach is still a threat while there being a balance between him and Sapience.

    Personally I think that while the suggestion is still valid and should be considered, I'd agree with keeping them as you said: NPC's and plot devices. They're more interesting as a threat unseen and unknown with the long-range consequences of their magic being used as something that general Sapience should fight against.
    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
  • BlujixapugBlujixapug
    Kayeil said:
    Okay some of those have obvious connotations, but what about mhun and tsol'aa? A lot of people still to this day mistake tsol'aa as elves with pointy ears, even though the admins have pointed out they're not elves and not born with pointy ears, but they're constantly described this way. Mhun kind of resemble humans and other humanoid races.
    Yeah, I think those races have identity issues.

    Tsol'aa lean heavily on the elf association. Except they're not elves. They don't even have the typical RPG stat superiority to dominate the usual elven wizard or Legolas roles. If elves weren't a fantasy staple, I don't know why Tsol'aa would exist. I suppose they fit that woodsy role, part-way between non-woodsy humans and 100%-woodsy dryads/treekin/ents.

    Mhun are slightly smaller, nimble humans. There's really not much else to them, but fortunately plenty of people want to play a character like that. I think the mechanical quickness plays a big part in emphasising their identity: formerly fast balance, currently increased movement (by FAR the strongest racial trait btw).

    The races go beyond that with the culture of the Aalen village and Moghedu, but whether they are robust at the most basic level is the issue here.
    image
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Blujixapug said:
    Kayeil said:
    Okay some of those have obvious connotations, but what about mhun and tsol'aa? A lot of people still to this day mistake tsol'aa as elves with pointy ears, even though the admins have pointed out they're not elves and not born with pointy ears, but they're constantly described this way. Mhun kind of resemble humans and other humanoid races.
    Yeah, I think those races have identity issues.

    Tsol'aa lean heavily on the elf association. Except they're not elves. They don't even have the typical RPG stat superiority to dominate the usual elven wizard or Legolas roles. If elves weren't a fantasy staple, I don't know why Tsol'aa would exist. I suppose they fit that woodsy role, part-way between non-woodsy humans and 100%-woodsy dryads/treekin/ents.

    Mhun are slightly smaller, nimble humans. There's really not much else to them, but fortunately plenty of people want to play a character like that. I think the mechanical quickness plays a big part in emphasising their identity: formerly fast balance, currently increased movement (by FAR the strongest racial trait btw).

    The races go beyond that with the culture of the Aalen village and Moghedu, but whether they are robust at the most basic level is the issue here.
    Ah okay, yeah makes sense. Was curious if there was some stuff that made them significant that I missed. So, for example, a minotaur race you think would fit in better as a playable race because they're easy to identify without knowing much about the game?
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • LucianusLucianus
    If you come from Aetolia. You'd be confused... since they have pointed ears there:



    That is not an ordinary star, my son. That star is the tear of a warrior. A lost soul who has finished his battles somewhere on this planet. A pitiful soul who could not find his way to the lofty realm where the great spirit awaits us all.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    lol. Those are some impressively large ears.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • BlujixapugBlujixapug
    Kayeil said:
    Blujixapug said:
    Kayeil said:
    Okay some of those have obvious connotations, but what about mhun and tsol'aa? A lot of people still to this day mistake tsol'aa as elves with pointy ears, even though the admins have pointed out they're not elves and not born with pointy ears, but they're constantly described this way. Mhun kind of resemble humans and other humanoid races.
    Yeah, I think those races have identity issues.

    Tsol'aa lean heavily on the elf association. Except they're not elves. They don't even have the typical RPG stat superiority to dominate the usual elven wizard or Legolas roles. If elves weren't a fantasy staple, I don't know why Tsol'aa would exist. I suppose they fit that woodsy role, part-way between non-woodsy humans and 100%-woodsy dryads/treekin/ents.

    Mhun are slightly smaller, nimble humans. There's really not much else to them, but fortunately plenty of people want to play a character like that. I think the mechanical quickness plays a big part in emphasising their identity: formerly fast balance, currently increased movement (by FAR the strongest racial trait btw).

    The races go beyond that with the culture of the Aalen village and Moghedu, but whether they are robust at the most basic level is the issue here.
    Ah okay, yeah makes sense. Was curious if there was some stuff that made them significant that I missed. So, for example, a minotaur race you think would fit in better as a playable race because they're easy to identify without knowing much about the game?
    I think so, yes. Bulls are associated with aggression, shortsightedness, stubbornness, seeing red and charging, champions of the herd,  counterintuitive vegetarianism, and all the associations of the Taurus starsign and to a lesser degree holy cows in various religions and cultures. So minotaurs would have those immediate connotations, a sense of strength at the cost of wisdom, and would maybe also appeal to a few people looking to chase some hot babes through mazes.

    Plus then they have the more developed culture of the Hriddan area.
    image
  • LucianusLucianus
    edited April 2016
    We've had Tauran race in Lusternia. Even after we got rid of racial stats and gave some appealing traits. Nobody played them. What got played the most after min-maxing old/new players dropped races that used to give pvp advantages (like the Aslaran who gave immense balance recovery speed bonuses) were the races that had a lot of lore and history within their respective organizations. From experience... nobody picked the Minotaur-like race or the Cyclops race in that game since their history was quite easily summarized into a single sentence (Splintered from this Goddess or Splintered from that God etc). Exceptions were the dog-like, cat-like, and little beast-kin races for... *cough* obvious reasons.
    That is not an ordinary star, my son. That star is the tear of a warrior. A lost soul who has finished his battles somewhere on this planet. A pitiful soul who could not find his way to the lofty realm where the great spirit awaits us all.
  • TaelTael
    Grandue said:
    A construct race, could come from clockwork isle or something. 
    Warforged yes plz.
    My Nexus Scripts
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    ooooo Faction races, that would be interesting to see...though I can see the problematic mechanical problems. Perhaps some sort of bonus they get for being part of the faction hmm.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    I think if there were factional races, it'd be fair to only expect two at most from the admins due to the work in creating them and the events revealing them. Like one that is acceptable in team green and team light, and one that is okay in Mhaldor, and allowing Ashtan, Hashan, and Cyrene the choice to accept one, the other, or both.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

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