Grouping Ship Ammo

Kresslack

I mentioned this somewhere, in a thread I think, but just in passing. In any case, I'm making the suggestion formally as I didn't see it on the list.

Please, PLEASE, make ship ammo groupable.I'm seriously running out of places to put the damned things, and it's a big inconvenience. It makes sense that they should be groupable.

Thanks for the consideration.

Thoughts?

Jonathin

They shouldn't be able to be combined into groups larger than 10-15. That alone will increase the storage capacity of an item with a ludicrously long decay time. You really don't need more than that.

Tvistor

What if he really, really hates other ships and wants to Oppress them without stopping to restock?

Jonathin

250 items per room. Grouped into 10 would increase it to 2500 of any ammo per room.

Seastrider have 6 rooms by default, making the total 15,000.

Striders can also have 6 more rooms added, making the total 30,000.

That is well more than enough to Oppress other ships without restocking.

Beya

Novice ship shooter here. Does ammo decay?

Jonathin

Yes, it has like a 150 month decay timer though.

Kresslack

Jonathin said:

They shouldn't be able to be combined into groups larger than 10-15. That alone will increase the storage capacity of an item with a ludicrously long decay time. You really don't need more than that.

I don't think there are any such limits on any other items that are currently groupable, so I do not agree with this. I might as well keep using huge chests if they can only be groupable to small groups. I currently have on hand near 800 of each type of ship ammo. 

Jonathin

Kresslack said:

Jonathin said:

They shouldn't be able to be combined into groups larger than 10-15. That alone will increase the storage capacity of an item with a ludicrously long decay time. You really don't need more than that.

I don't think there are any such limits on any other items that are currently groupable, so I do not agree with this. I might as well keep using huge chests if they can only be groupable to small groups. I currently have on hand near 800 of each type of ship ammo. 

The only reason I say to limit it is because of the decay time, unless grouped items count as a single item on the server, then by all means. In time, seafaring will change and people will (hopefully) be more drawn to ocean conflict which would lead to massive server clutter.

Kresslack

There's more clutter by having thousands of loose items lying around, because I horde ship ammo about as much as a dragon does shiny objects. This would allow ship ammo to be store more conveniently and efficiently. It shouldn't deter anyone from participating in seafaring. If they're worried about a ship having a large cache of ammo, I go news for you son, I got 99 problems but low ammo stock ain't one.

Jonathin

You misunderstand me. I don't particularly care about ease of storage for you, I'm more concerned that with future changes to seafaring and ship combat in general, more people will get interested in it and the amount of ammo that is stored on ships already will skyrocket, cluttering the servers and creating lag like it was with the bazillion vials everyone had. Ship ammo has a ridiculous decay time, so it would stockpile across 150 RL days and the piles would become just massive.

That's why I said if grouped items only count as a single item, then I'm all for it. Otherwise, we shouldn't be trying to come up with ideas to clutter the server with more items. I also like the idea that ships can have a limited amount of ammo aboard at any one time, but I'm not really factoring into my argument here.

Silas

I actually don't like this idea since it makes ship ammo non-decay, in essence, especially for people with weapons racks.

ETA: Also, I imagine you can get by perfectly well without keeping nearly as much ammo as people are at the moment. I won't pretend to know how much ammo is used in an average sea battle, but I would be be surprised if people used 10/day on average. The current stocks, just on those Shallamese combat-ready ships I've seen, are absurd.

Kresslack

Silas said:

I actually don't like this idea since it makes ship ammo non-decay, in essence, especially for people with weapons racks.

ETA: Also, I imagine you can get by perfectly well without keeping nearly as much ammo as people are at the moment. I won't pretend to know how much ammo is used in an average sea battle, but I would be be surprised if people used 10/day on average. The current stocks, just on those Shallamese combat-ready ships I've seen, are absurd.

I have enough on hand, in chests on ships, and scattered around in piles on the decks of the ships to sink a ship from the weight of it alone. It's just everywhere, and I fine it incredibly inconvenient and ridiculous that it can't be grouped in some fashion. 

Aerek

Silas said:

I actually don't like this idea since it makes ship ammo non-decay, in essence, especially for people with weapons racks.

EDIT: Misread the statement, slightly. The above is the biggest reason that this idea shouldn't go in.

I agree fully that the convenience factor of ammo groups would be nice, but with the way groups work, the decay time on ammo, and the massive stocks of ammo that are hoarded by Achaeans already, being able to group them would just remove any resemblance of logistical obligation. Honestly, if we made it any easier to have more ammo around, we might as well just remove ammo as a concept and let ship weapons shoot with magical, infinite ammo on their own. The end result would be the same and the latter wouldn't involve the clutter of thousands upon thousands of ammunition items across the world.

Silas

Just make ammo stores like token/food stores. HARBOUR PURCHASE X <ammotype> STORES FOR SHIP#. People with weapon racks would have their stores automagically refilled by x amount on daychange.

Then, to load a weapon, have it send an order for the crew to reload the weapon with whatever ammo type.

Kresslack

Aerek said:

Silas said:

I actually don't like this idea since it makes ship ammo non-decay, in essence, especially for people with weapons racks.

EDIT: Misread the statement, slightly. The above is the biggest reason that this idea shouldn't go in.

I agree fully that the convenience factor of ammo groups would be nice, but with the way groups work, the decay time on ammo, and the massive stocks of ammo that are hoarded by Achaeans already, being able to group them would just remove any resemblance of logistical obligation. Honestly, if we made it any easier to have more ammo around, we might as well just remove ammo as a concept and let ship weapons shoot with magical, infinite ammo on their own. The end result would be the same and the latter wouldn't involve the clutter of thousands upon thousands of ammunition items across the world.

It's not making it easier to have more ammo around, it's making it easier to store the already infinite amounts of ammo available. It isn't as if this makes ammo easier to obtain...it's still obtained by the same conventional means, either from buying from shops, or from weapon racks. Another point is, ship ammo can't really be sold in personal shops, since it can't be grouped. You'd have to sell about ten of each at a time, and it's not very practical to just buy ten of any of them, especially darts. 

And @Silas, I'm not keen on that idea as it takes away from opportunities for crew involvement(as in other players). You can group just about Anything else in Achaea, and I'm still not seeing a good reason why ship ammo shouldn't be groupable. If you're concerned with the decay time....suggest lowering it. Not as if it will matter since those of us that use them most have weapon racks. I have more ammo than I know what to do with, and always will...I'm just looking for a way to consolidate it and keep it managed. 

Eld

I'm in favour of making it groupable just because I appraised @Artanis yesterday and it took about 100 MOREs to get through all the ammo.

Tvistor

I'm sure there is a way to make it groupable without exploding the servers. I think we'd need one of the coders to comment on how much lag it would potentially introduce to the game.

Jonathin

Silas brought up a good point though about basically making the items non-decay. I don't like the idea of making it work like ship stores, but it would be nice to get a sort of magazine where we can go over the 250 item limit and make it so you can't drop ammo in the other rooms of a ship. 

I have no idea how feasible that would be, how that would affect ship combat if at all, nor if it would even be desirable.

Kresslack

I'm not a Necromancer but I'm going to revive this after wrestling with trying to separate ammo just now between the various types to get dipped and un-dipped into separate storage. Currently, it has to be done individually by item. Are there any thoughts on how to make ship ammo groupable by type and whether dipped or not and still decay at the normal rate? I'm once again getting buried under excessive of ammo that I can't use quickly enough, and trying to separate dipped ammo from un-dipped ammo is enough to drive someone to madness.

@Carden @Tecton @Sarapis