how do you handle the illogical?

Iowyn · February 2016

One thing I am struggling with is how to justify certain things ICly that don't make any sense but are a result of necessary game mechanics. Example - the constant refilling of places like Manara or Great Rock. Are they just very, very prolific breeders that then grow and mature at a much greater rate? Or the lack of anything to do. Again, in Manara there's a few slaves I've discovered you can help but most of them you can't. It's a little annoying playing a character who would be moved to do something being forced to just be "oh there's a woman shackled to the floor clearly being raped repeatedly tralalalala just gonna ignore that" (I might be missing something - maybe you can help and I just haven't figured it out yet)

The best I can come up with is you can "put them out of their misery" but even that just makes the slave population hostile towards you. It would be nice if those elements like those denizens that are clearly added for atmosphere and flavor went full circle. There should be a slave rebellion quest in Manara. At the very least you should be able to do something, even if it's as simple as the nice touch of being able to help feed the Mingruk with bits of root you can find in the burrow.

But I know there's probably a whole whack of issues with what I'm saying so just on the day to day how do you guys ICly discuss things that technically make no sense?

Elowin · February 2016

Selective amnesia.

Aepas · February 2016

There is a certain amount of suspension of disbelief that goes into several things, like hunting specifically.

Sure you can try to justify it by saying thoth lets them all come back or they have a large amount of numbers that needs culling, this that or the other.

In general though, I think of it more like a specific campaign against a group of people. Maybe you went to Manara because you wanted to free some slaves and killed some gnolls in the process. Maybe you took a group out and for the glory of Mhaldor you just killed a bunch cause why not.

Same things goes for wars or extended conflict in my mind. I have been to many battles and suffered many terrible wounds, and fought against the many denizens of the world. But I'd hardly say that I've killed " Denizen Slain : 61323 ", That's pretty much nearing the genocide of a city, plus I don't really think any person could single handedly do that even with a lot of time.

As a character, you go to battles, gain experience from said battles, live a bit longer, and carry on with life.

Aereidhna · February 2016

Suspension of disbelief, for sure. Although with denizens respawning, I use the 'visited Lord Thoth' argument.

Things like not being able to free slaves because there's no mechanical way of going about it, though, suspension of disbelief for sure. I like the way Aepas described it - and don't see why you couldn't RP out your own little freeing of a selective few slaves (not mechanically, just, you know, yourself), just assuming you don't have the power to entirely stop the slavery industrial complex so the gnolls keep enslaving.

Generally in Achaea the response to not being able to change terrible situations through mechanics is 'put them out of their misery' - it makes for a good excuse to hunt a whole host of things.

Citrus · February 2016

Denizens are just non-played characters, couldn't they theoretically just embrace death and get another chance like we do when we die?

Kaden · February 2016

I've seen the embrace death (though it was still pray for salvation through Maya at the time) used once in a storyline. Bunch of Cyrenian denizens were murdered and a denizen mentioned waiting to see if they'd return from Maya's halls.

Sarathai · February 2016

I might be misremembering, but way back in the day I think part of the Vertani event involved Sarapis or somebody actively bestowing adventurer resurrection on the Vertani, which would imply that, like adventurers being "special" (since they always have something Thoth thinks is incomplete), it isn't a benefit/gift everything possesses.

For the most part, I just file it under suspension of disbelief.

Kiet · February 2016

I believe it was implied the Vertani didn't have that, but everyone else on Sapience, adventurer or not, did.

Skye · February 2016

Yeah. The Vertani being not from Sapience didn't have the benefit of passing though the halls, which is why they made it such a big damn deal when their people got killed in the days leading up to the war.

It was only after everything was said and done that the remaining Vertani (who were seeking amnesty) were granted the same gift and set up a village.

Ula · February 2016

i partly ignore these illogicallities wholesale, and partly philosophize on my own about what it could mean as a resident of Sapience. But I don't think i've ever come up with something worth repeating.

Jinsun · February 2016

It's just returning via Thoth. That's why specific Denizens return. The things that more concern me are being like 106 and having 4.6k health with level one Arties while I see newblets from buffer classes with like 6k health and I'm like "i solo'd Chenubis and can still be dropped by a sylvan with a true favour "

Shirszae · February 2016

I tend to ignore most denizens are named and all. Shirsz being shirsz, it tends to feel more like rampaging and killing faceless, nameless denizens that just happened to be near, anyway.

As for returning from Thoth, while adventurers tend to assume they will always get another chance, it is in no way a warranted feeling, at least from an in-character perspective. Thoth could get up any day and say screw you, either to a denizen (Like those from the Fat Lady ship and those who die in most events) or to an adventurer (though we know this wont happen mechanically.

Halos · February 2016

Some people go all the way with it, such as below, from the old forums.

Observations On Minian Culture
---------------------------
I have spent some time in Minia studying the locals and have come to quite a few startling conclusions on Minian breeding habits, cultural dynamics, and the influence of outsiders on both.

It is my belief the constant influx of adventurers into the area has completely altered the life cycle of its inhabitants, as it appears that locals repopulate at a truly alarming rate. To test this theory I traveled to the pixie village where I engaged in wholesale slaughter of the natives until only a few pixies were left. Very quickly pixie children were cropping up, followed by adult pixies, pixie warriors, and even a new Queen. Without an effective tagging system in place I was unable to conclusively demonstrate that I was in fact seeing pixies mature in the span of a few hours, however based on analysis of the succession of age stratification I do believe this to be the case.

The implication behind such a rapid sexual development is that the pixies face extreme pressures. While they are in fact in a state of hostility with the imps, no actual imp/pixie violence was observed during my time in Minia. Time and time again, however, outsiders were observed hacking, clawing, biting, and zapping Minians to death. As stated above, the pixie population was able to recover from being reduced to only a few breeding pairs to a full society in only a matter of hours. While no pixie births were directly observed, it can be inferred that the gestation period is very short and that litter sizes are enormous.

The incredibly short life cycle of Minians has had obvious effects on Minian culture. With only days, if not hours, to live Minians receive little to no formal education and are at once thrust into a horrific environment of continued murder and pillaging during a time when they are rapidly reaching sexual maturation. Classrooms provide no useful instruction as teachers have had no opportunity to themselves become effective in their role and children pass into adulthood with no real skills besides holding pointy sticks and fetching water.

Political leadership is often targeted, as the corpses of kings and queens fetch a hefty bounty in rival kingdoms, adding to the inherent instability. A king or queen may only serve minutes before being offed by a greedy adventurer. I would hypothesize that this continued instability has contributed to the constancy of the ongoing conflict between the kingdoms. Without the ability to grow and mature in their offices, the infantile kings and queens know no better than to continue the wars started untold thousands of generations before.

It is, however, difficult to imagine the Minian ecosystem to survive a ban on outsiders entering. Without heavy predation the sexual habits of the native fauna would soon produce populations that would absolutely burden Minian resources leading to widespread famine and cultural collapse. Perhaps the best hope for Minians is that selective pressure will tend towards larger, more robust offspring better able to defend themselves against adventurers. As the extreme dwarfism of the local fauna is reduced more Minians will survive through adulthood to establish themselves and reverse the current trends, culturally and genetically. With time the Minians themselves may even be able to prevent outside incursions.

~~ Bunnigus the Forest Dwarf
23rd of Valnuary
591 years after the Fall

Shirszae · February 2016

On one side, that's a pretty interesting ready. On the other, the rate at which most things get bashed (if not the fact that things get bashed in itself) is one of the things I prefer to ignore. It gets a little ridiculous otherwise, from an in-character perspective.