Looking for RP

Kiet

Admin rulings can/have been wrong in the past, and when the actual help file on roleplaying sees otherwise I'm going to go with that idea. Regardless, it is up to the city leadership to enforce roleplaying, and, therefore, some cities are going to be better for actually staying in-character if you don't want your parties to be ooc.

Saeva

Unless someone strictly says "Hey this party is OOC" I think it should always, always be assumed it is IC.  I mean, he posted it right there in the HELP files.

If we want to hear about your day, your dog, your music, your lolwtf we'd be in an OOC clan with you or read the forums.

By "you" just mean the general you. Nobody in specific.

Tahquil

@Qwyn  : There are a few long form emotes out there but usually in public people tend to keep their emotes predefined due to the speed at which things progress.

There is also the tendency (I've found myself doing) to match your emoting length/depth to whomever your interesting with. People who come to me with long emotes I'll be able to easily reply to with more depth because they've given my more cues to work from.

I think the only way you'll begin to find these long form emotes is to go up to people or small groups and start your long emotes. Most of the time you may be met with 'giggle, greet, say hello' but you should find some people will return in kind.

Jahk

I think it's important to reiterate that there's a difference between what most of us transfers are referring to as RP and the Achaea-esque definition. Promise I'm not trying to sound douchey or snobby here, bear with me please.

In Aetolia (and MKO I hear) RP is referred to typically as more long-form emote sessions like was mentioned above for the purpose of pretty much just writing artistically and enjoying the writing. These are usually more involved sessions that can be a blast, and it's an interest that's valid just like combat or bashing. The OP posted this:

"So, I'm a fairly dedicated RPer - long form, deep character, always-in-character, every-day-all-day kind of RP."

They made it clear what they were looking for, and got the response "Oh hey, roleplay is everywhere!" As somebody that asked the same question, and got the same response, it's a bit frustrating. 

On behalf of everybody from other more RP-intensive MUDs, please know that this isn't a self-righteous, 'Our RP is better than yours!' type deal, but it's a matter of finding the activity we're looking for. 

tl;dr

If somebody was looking for a complex class to play and get into combat as, you wouldn't direct them towards one that had only 1 kill route and then explain to them, "Hey no complaining, that's still combat!"

Citrus

Qwyn said:

Goryllin said:

I dunno about all of this long form emoting nonsense. I just live a character. Goryllin is alive and well and doing things. So if you interact with him, you get interacted with (good or bad). If you become part of his life, you are part of his life. He doesn't stand around and wait for someone to come up so he can make a lot of weird facial and body contortions to silently get his point across, but he lives and breaths (and dies) and .. is alive and response. That's roleplay.

This is the sort of response I'm talking about. It in NO WAY undermines your concept of RP or makes other people better or worse at RP - some of us just enjoy the ACTIVITY of long-form emoting, just like some people enjoy bashing or enjoy figuring out quests. I see these types of threads on IRE (and non-IRE) games a lot, and it's always frustrating. Nobody is saying one way of RPing is better or worse - they are saying "this is an activity [typing out long emotes/writing a creative scene collaboratively] I enjoy doing. What's the best way to find other people to do it with me?" - yet often the thread turns into a discussion about "what is RP" and we get unhelpful platitudes like "RP is everywhere"  which is about as useful as asking "What's the best area to bash at level 92" and being told "bashing is everywhere! "

I understand where Gory is coming from.  I don't do some equivalent type of long form RP in my real life, I just am me.  I wake up and go about my day and do the things I do, and when I log into Achaea it's the same thing.  At that point I am my character, I don't need to do long drawn out emotes and make up creative scenes to feel like I am my character and I'm apart of the world.  For me the structure of RPing my character is innately there, all I have to do is log in.  I'm not saying long form is wrong in any way, I know some people prefer it and that's totally cool too.

As far as OOC in the game goes, that's related to the people you interact with.  I myself have seen absolutely no OOC on HT/CT in the new Ashtan, or in says or tells with people I've interacted with unless explicitly marked.

Qwyn

Maybe this answer doesn't exist here, but the type of thing I was hoping to see while reading this thread (and sorry for hijacking it a bit, I guess, but I've been wondering this same thing since I started) was ideas for places, activities, even suggestions to drum up interaction, etc that are a good way to get a "long-form-emote-session" - for example, in Aetolia, there are a few bars that people tend to hang out at when they are looking for an emote session. It's nothing official, but people just kinda know when they wander into one of them they are likely going to be emoted at.

Shirszae

I swear, you are making me want to dust off my Aetolia character (which would be a pain xD)

Jahk

Citrus said:

Qwyn said:

Goryllin said:

I dunno about all of this long form emoting nonsense. I just live a character. Goryllin is alive and well and doing things. So if you interact with him, you get interacted with (good or bad). If you become part of his life, you are part of his life. He doesn't stand around and wait for someone to come up so he can make a lot of weird facial and body contortions to silently get his point across, but he lives and breaths (and dies) and .. is alive and response. That's roleplay.

This is the sort of response I'm talking about. It in NO WAY undermines your concept of RP or makes other people better or worse at RP - some of us just enjoy the ACTIVITY of long-form emoting, just like some people enjoy bashing or enjoy figuring out quests. I see these types of threads on IRE (and non-IRE) games a lot, and it's always frustrating. Nobody is saying one way of RPing is better or worse - they are saying "this is an activity [typing out long emotes/writing a creative scene collaboratively] I enjoy doing. What's the best way to find other people to do it with me?" - yet often the thread turns into a discussion about "what is RP" and we get unhelpful platitudes like "RP is everywhere"  which is about as useful as asking "What's the best area to bash at level 92" and being told "bashing is everywhere! "

I understand where Gory is coming from.  I don't do some equivalent type of long form RP in my real life, I just am me. 

It's not necessarily the same here.

When you had breakfast this morning (example, maybe you're a breakfast hater, who knows) did you consider your food before you picked it out? If you cooked it there were a series of actions that had to take place before the uncooked ingredients magically turned into a delicious breakfast.

The difference here is essentially between describing how that breakfast was cooked (I cracked the eggs, then stirred them up in a bowl, etc.) and 'I cooked breakfast.' 

Can you get the same point across each way? Sure, absolutely. Do some people prefer telling the longer version? Sure do.

It's got nothing to do with feeling like you have to do it to be part of the world, and more along the lines of it being just another thing that some people like doing.

Tahquil

@Qwyn what client do you use? I know svof for mudlet has the 'qwhom' command which parses the who list and lists what groups of people are where. I've found this to be very good for just popping in on people.

at the main city meetings places (centre crossing, crossroads etc) you'll get Rp, but it would rarely be long form. You might have better luck seeking people in libraries or taverns and bars. 

Like a thief, look for people who are just standing around for a while.

Qwyn

Nifty. I'm slowly swapping over to mudlet and have grabbed svof, so I'll look at that.

Lorielan

Prefaced warning: This is a general statement and does not cover every possibility, every scenario, every instance.

Roleplay in Achaea is a more (Achaean) daily, slice of life, always-on type thing as folks have said. The playerbase tends to go in for emotional displays that match the time progression in game, where hello's are quick because an Achaean day is an RL hour. It's something we in the Garden actually love because the game feels more alive and ever-changing, where conversations are both expansive and inclusive and someone can wander into a corner of a city and step into a lively debate or discussion because one is happening.

Long form (for the uninitiated multi-sentence/paragraph emote) roleplay tends to be something that's planned, usually in a more formal setting such as celebration/ritual/demonstration because it's actually rather off-putting for many (especially the newer players) as there are long spates of silence as people sit there writing out their responses. It doesn't tend to allow for flexibility of participants or for the rather active nature of Achaea's happenings (where you might be raided at any moment, where a shrine you need to defend might get dropped, where one of the half-million newbies might require rescue, help, assistance.)

Long form roleplay does very well when you want to be part of a (perhaps planned) collaborative effort to tell a story, less so on the fly when the world you are in is the story and you are playing a bit part. It works very well in things like forums dedicated to roleplay, or when you are planning and enacting some grand plot with your friends, because you can acceptably give a great deal more into the creation of a scene, allowing for the revelation of thoughts and for the focus of the meaning of minute actions.

The long-emote writer will often be left behind in a conversation that's moving quickly onwards as they prepare their long-form response. When compared to the pace of day-to-day, Achaean interaction, this unfortunately tends to come across as a very stilted, and some might see it as an overbearing, style of interaction.

TL;DR
Long-form emoting has its place in Achaea, but you'll likely want to immerse yourself in your orgs and find folks who are first of all willing to engage in the short-style that is prevalent, this cadre of friends, enemies and all inbetween are likely to be your best bet for finding players who are then willing to embrace (and set aside time to indulge in) longer-written scenes with you.

Citrus

Jahk said:

Citrus said:

Qwyn said:

Goryllin said:

I dunno about all of this long form emoting nonsense. I just live a character. Goryllin is alive and well and doing things. So if you interact with him, you get interacted with (good or bad). If you become part of his life, you are part of his life. He doesn't stand around and wait for someone to come up so he can make a lot of weird facial and body contortions to silently get his point across, but he lives and breaths (and dies) and .. is alive and response. That's roleplay.

This is the sort of response I'm talking about. It in NO WAY undermines your concept of RP or makes other people better or worse at RP - some of us just enjoy the ACTIVITY of long-form emoting, just like some people enjoy bashing or enjoy figuring out quests. I see these types of threads on IRE (and non-IRE) games a lot, and it's always frustrating. Nobody is saying one way of RPing is better or worse - they are saying "this is an activity [typing out long emotes/writing a creative scene collaboratively] I enjoy doing. What's the best way to find other people to do it with me?" - yet often the thread turns into a discussion about "what is RP" and we get unhelpful platitudes like "RP is everywhere"  which is about as useful as asking "What's the best area to bash at level 92" and being told "bashing is everywhere! "

I understand where Gory is coming from.  I don't do some equivalent type of long form RP in my real life, I just am me. 

It's not necessarily the same here.

When you had breakfast this morning (example, maybe you're a breakfast hater, who knows) did you consider your food before you picked it out? If you cooked it there were a series of actions that had to take place before the uncooked ingredients magically turned into a delicious breakfast.

The difference here is essentially between describing how that breakfast was cooked (I cracked the eggs, then stirred them up in a bowl, etc.) and 'I cooked breakfast.' 

Can you get the same point across each way? Sure, absolutely. Do some people prefer telling the longer version? Sure do.

It's got nothing to do with feeling like you have to do it to be part of the world, and more along the lines of it being just another thing that some people like doing.

Absolutely it is definitely a matter on how verbose you want to be.  I think Lorielan hit it on the head though in that in Achaea times moves so fast, there's always the threat of danger or something happening that deters people from the time long form takes.  It seems long form is more prevalent in the lower population IRE games because there's less threat of your city being raided or something and there's more time for longer says/emotes.  I know when I have long form RPed that the several minute pauses in-between long says/emotes are extremely awkward and un-immersive for me personally unless I set aside time for that specifically.

Farrah

I mean, I've heard a lot of Aetolians ask about this recently, so, I'm sure there's a way you can all find each other (and non-Aetolian Achaeans who do happen to enjoy doing this). Maybe try using RPWHO? It's not used often but if everyone who wants to do long-form stuff used it, it'd give you ways to find each other.

There are some Houses you might be more likely to find people who do this in than others. The Harbingers comes to mind. But I really don't see it as -that- common in Achaea, as others have said.

Jahk

Thank you for your input there, I appreciate it. I wish I saw a post like that before I retired one of my characters from another game.

I don't want to drag this on more than I already have, or be that annoying person that comes in wailing that in x game we do y (more than I already have, apologies guys, I promise I'm not actually a jerk ).

I think it ultimately comes down to different mentalities across the game, really. Achaea isn't Aetolia, Aetolia isn't Lusternia, etc. etc. It's a bit of a culture shock I suppose just coming from similar games with many identical elements (time in Aetolia was 1 RL hour too up until a few months ago, raids/holywars/wars happened there as well, etc.) and there's a sort of expectation that things should be similar, when really they don't necessarily have to be.

Iowyn

I have to say as a newcomer, I have found excellent immersion in Targossas. The feeling of culture and spirituality there is very strong and all the players seem very committed to it. I'm thoroughly enjoying being a newcomer there. 

Jaskar

Citrus said:

Jahk said:

Citrus said:

Qwyn said:

Goryllin said:

I dunno about all of this long form emoting nonsense. I just live a character. Goryllin is alive and well and doing things. So if you interact with him, you get interacted with (good or bad). If you become part of his life, you are part of his life. He doesn't stand around and wait for someone to come up so he can make a lot of weird facial and body contortions to silently get his point across, but he lives and breaths (and dies) and .. is alive and response. That's roleplay.

This is the sort of response I'm talking about. It in NO WAY undermines your concept of RP or makes other people better or worse at RP - some of us just enjoy the ACTIVITY of long-form emoting, just like some people enjoy bashing or enjoy figuring out quests. I see these types of threads on IRE (and non-IRE) games a lot, and it's always frustrating. Nobody is saying one way of RPing is better or worse - they are saying "this is an activity [typing out long emotes/writing a creative scene collaboratively] I enjoy doing. What's the best way to find other people to do it with me?" - yet often the thread turns into a discussion about "what is RP" and we get unhelpful platitudes like "RP is everywhere"  which is about as useful as asking "What's the best area to bash at level 92" and being told "bashing is everywhere! "

I understand where Gory is coming from.  I don't do some equivalent type of long form RP in my real life, I just am me. 

It's not necessarily the same here.

When you had breakfast this morning (example, maybe you're a breakfast hater, who knows) did you consider your food before you picked it out? If you cooked it there were a series of actions that had to take place before the uncooked ingredients magically turned into a delicious breakfast.

The difference here is essentially between describing how that breakfast was cooked (I cracked the eggs, then stirred them up in a bowl, etc.) and 'I cooked breakfast.' 

Can you get the same point across each way? Sure, absolutely. Do some people prefer telling the longer version? Sure do.

It's got nothing to do with feeling like you have to do it to be part of the world, and more along the lines of it being just another thing that some people like doing.

Absolutely it is definitely a matter on how verbose you want to be.  I think Lorielan hit it on the head though in that in Achaea times moves so fast, there's always the threat of danger or something happening that deters people from the time long form takes.  It seems long form is more prevalent in the lower population IRE games because there's less threat of your city being raided or something and there's more time for longer says/emotes.  I know when I have long form RPed that the several minute pauses in-between long says/emotes are extremely awkward and un-immersive for me personally unless I set aside time for that specifically.

I come from Aetolia where this long-form style is pretty prevalent. If anything, RP of this kind is more common in Aetolia than ANYTHING mechanical and so Citrus you're pretty much exactly right; there isn't an over-arching sense of conflict or urgency and the main themes of the game have shifted from that mechanical focus to (in many cases) a more leisurely focus on character development. Sometimes I enjoy this, sometimes I don't.

It isn't for everyone and I would second the suggestions of using RPWHO. Another thing I used to be quite fond of in Aetolia was just making a big deal out of walking into someone. Write a paragraph and a slightly melodramatic description of that happening and the response you get will often determine what to expect.

I have had very little interaction with anyone in Achaea so far (I've mostly been bashing and reading and trying to get to grips with the game) but if anything my overall impression is that the game does have that sense of urgency and it makes things feel more gritty and makes the world itself feel more alive. This is a refreshing change for me and I'm very grateful that all the games AREN'T all the same in this regard.

Qwyn

@jaskar - My experience has been different, in both Aetolia and other MUDs. I've seen city landscapes (literally) change because of RP, I've seen PK skirmishes and even wars start because of roleplay encounters and I've seen people do emoting and character development as a response to conflict. I do think it's possible to integrate RP with combat, and I always thought it provided a nice book-end and context to it all - it can give conflict a satisfying build-up and resolution, and it gives you something to do during the downtime while mechanical stuff is going on (eg roleplay about training soldiers while troops are capturing territory).

Sena

Valkyn said:

No, I don't 'think' parties are ooc by default, I'm just going off admin rulings. Personally I'd rather they weren't and avoid ooc parties.

The most relevant admin ruling that I know of was that calling raid targets is OOC and thus makes any party used for that purpose OOC*, not that all parties are OOC (the ruling is actually dependent on parties being IC by default).

*That ruling was also wrong, and Sarapis agreed that it should have been appealed.

Melodie

Qwyn said:

@jaskar - My experience has been different, in both Aetolia and other MUDs. I've seen city landscapes (literally) change because of RP, I've seen PK skirmishes and even wars start because of roleplay encounters and I've seen people do emoting and character development as a response to conflict. I do think it's possible to integrate RP with combat, and I always thought it provided a nice book-end and context to it all - it can give conflict a satisfying build-up and resolution, and it gives you something to do during the downtime while mechanical stuff is going on (eg roleplay about training soldiers while troops are capturing territory).

To be clear, the bolded does happen. Perhaps not quite as it used to on the large scale (which we're all hoping will change this year), but there's plenty of historical examples. Starting with some admin events:

• The example everyone likes to cite is Bal'met and its months of events, but further
• The Conclave event was month-long, RP-driven and had extensive amounts of both roleplay, combat, and hunting
• The plague sea-focused event was also hugely RP-driven and had a lot of focus on hunting sea monsters

Moving on to player-driven events:

• Recently the Aristata family (or maybe "House" would be better to use) of Mhaldor more or less declared war on the 'Forestatas', or better known as the Aristatas who betrayed Mhaldor and went to Eleusis, but kept a name that is deeply entrenched in Mhaldor's lore. This was fought out for quite a while.
• Players do start wars all on their own fairly often, one of the last large ones being when Mhaldor and Eleusis as cities went to war, but there's also been Targossas and Hashan, Ashtan and Targossas, and others in recent years. Wars are taxing, though, on players to do too often.
• Slightly older but just as relevant, back when Eris was the Goddess of Chaos, a player named Flair founded a cult that more or less came up with the lore of Babel and His Order. They were around for centuries and causing all kinds of wars, problems, and even issues within their home city of Ashtan. Eventually they managed to even bring Babel back, and Eris was lost forever through that. This was all because a group of players roleplayed that way, and it was so legitimate, the admin eventually decided to role with it.
• Through a very lengthy series of events, including where my own character played a huge role in for many years, Cyrene ultimately decided to cut their ties to the power of Devotion, which is a Good-driven source of power. This is far too much to explain shortly, but the majority of it was player-driven.
  

I promise there are many, many opportunities for what you described. In time, we'll have more large events to help push some lore and narrative again. Achaea just tends to reward those who are self-motivated and produce their own (lore-backed and thoughtfully consistent) content!

Astrika

I love that this has taken a life of its own, but as far as my original question -

A) I appreciate y'all jumping in and offering encouragement, and the PM I got earlier from @Exelethril.

I haven't found what I'm looking for yet, but I have leads.

C) Whoever admin-with-a-shiny-name-I-can't-look-back-and-find (because it's after midnight here) really answered my question, and that makes a lot of sense.

I may start a minor private effort to get into some interesting longform RP with those of you that are willing, so keep an eye out.

Aereidhna

I enjoy long-form emoting and would be totally down to RP with you! I'm not at Aetolia level or anything but I need to practice. What Shirszae said - sometimes you just have to throw down and see who bites. RPwho is super useful for this but has been empty sometimes lately.

Kayeil

I think another difference to consider with the other IRE games is that they do have smaller playerbases in comparison. In a playing session of Achaea there's tons of oppurtunity to speak to various people on many different mediums, and there's always things to do. So it is a fast-paced game. In Aetolia, when I played it in the past, I might only have gotten to interact with a few people, so you took your time with them and really immersed yourself to see where it went. Even moreso when I tried Lusternia, that game's populace was so low I would be lucky to really interact with anyone sometimes.

Jinsun

As someone who really enjoys the long form interactions, I'll be honest, I don't have them as much as I'd like and I think that's due to a number of factors. One, I am abrasive and play an abrasive character. That's pretty straightforward. The other is something I've been struggling with lately. The more leadership roles I take on lately the less of these important interactions I'm having. That's to be expected in the fast paced life that is Achaea and it's not for lack of others trying to drag me out of my own work @aodfionn we will debate someday I promise. Ashtan had seen some really refreshing new faces and RPers @Kelara and @Piera come to mind. I think honestly one thing that really helps is staunch, defined roles which is why mhaldor and targossas seem to be these good RP centers. They have an ethos that you have to be a part of to live there. I sometimes wish Ashtan was that zealous about Chaos and have even considered leaving as a result of it. Another thing that really makes time for those interactions difficult is the cost of things that I need or want in the game. I've spent almost 100k in gold the past week just on sigils and tarot cards. That's still hours of hunting for me on top of the hours of work and writing that I do daily right now. I really bad when someone asks me a really in depth question or sends a well thought out emote my way and I have to respond "one moment" meaning newbie x needs me to update this project/someone needs inducted into one of these 20 clans/I'm being radianced again/Targossas put a wormhole in Babel's temple (seriously guys how the hell?). Right now I'm trying to save for the biggest ship so I can build a large enough space to interact with these people and entertain groups of guests without that fear of interruption or safety issues. For awhile Pirating actually drew some good interactions but since the seafaring changes, I've zero desire to sail. The sea monsters seem like a cool addition but the new mechanics sound awful and daunting. 

Ula

Lorielan said:

-snip-

Yes.

Jurixe

I didn't know that was what 'longform RP' actually meant - I thought that just literally meant anything that was more than a sentence long and wasn't one of the preset emotes. The more you know!

Lorielan is generally right about everything said regarding finding longform RP - it's definitely not widespread in Achaea and requires some very specific circumstances, you're not likely to just walk into it - but just as a general 'how to find and encourage RP' tip, something that has worked for me is going the extra effort and above all, staying consistent.

Some people like to use preset emotes during 'casual' conversation and transition to using 'proper' custom emotes in specific surroundings. There's nothing wrong with that and that doesn't immediately indicate that they are bad roleplayers, but it just helps my own sense of immersion to have to go out of my way to consider a reaction from my character. How much she would smile, how much she would reveal, how she would reveal it, so on and so forth. The lighting, the weather, the environment, props in the room, I love playing off all that.

However, one thing that people mention a lot is the 'flow' of the roleplay and how speed is often an important factor in that, particularly off-the-cuff situations. If you're not a fast typer or can't react quickly enough, I agree that you can lose a lot. So it's a matter of finding that balance and, more importantly, roleplay partners that complement your style well. It can take some time to find the people you click with, but if you keep yourself consistent, you will attract those that like your style or are at least curious about whether you would mesh.

As an aside, I don't like the whole *smile*, *grin* emotes in tells thing that a lot of people do. There's nothing wrong with 'heh' or 'haha' to convey the same thing while still being immersive, and there's even expressiveness to help that along now. But a large part of Achaea does do that still, and you eventually just learn to ignore it. I find that the effort that a lot people put into roleplaying is directly proportional to their counterparts - if you hang out with quasi-ooc people all the time, chances are you'll be the same way to 'fit in'. But if you surround yourself with people who take roleplay seriously or even go the extra mile, it will help your immersion and encourage you to do more.

I've never been a fan of RPWHO for the sole reason that I don't think we should encourage a perceived divide between the 'RP-serious' and the 'RP-lite', but I understand how it can be a great boon to people looking for others that will at least put in a modicum of effort in storytelling. I hope you find what you're looking for, but don't be discouraged if it takes time - establishing yourself is the first step.

Aodfionn

Jurixe said:

the effort that a lot people put into roleplaying is directly proportional to their counterparts - if you hang out with quasi-ooc people all the time, chances are you'll be the same way to 'fit in'. But if you surround yourself with people who take roleplay seriously or even go the extra mile, it will help your immersion and encourage you to do more.



Trapped in the quote box. Quoted because this is absolutely the most on-point observation about RP in Achaea.

Valkyn

What's wrong with 'smile' or 'grin'? As long as they fit your character. I have no qualms with dispersing them amongst custom emotes where they're appropriate when it suits. If someone smiles constantly and does nothing else... well I might think they're a little simple.

Jurixe

There's nothing wrong with it at all, but my example above was referring when people use them in tells, like Person tells you, "*smile* How are you?"

Elowin

She means people who shunt *smile* or *grin* into emotes. Which annoys me too, but what can you do.

Valkyn

Jurixe said:

There's nothing wrong with it at all, but my example above was referring when people use them in tells, like Person tells you, "*smile* How are you?"

Oh that, that's daft. I don't see it very often at all these days, thankfully.