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Newbie experience from another IRE.

VacodaVacoda Member Posts: 3
edited February 2016 in North of Thera
Hiya! I am sorry if this is the wrong place but I'm just dropping this off as food for thought and as a reflection of my experience thusfar in Achaea.

I come from Lusternia and came to try Achaea on the recommendation of a friend who I like to speak to on the occasion. From the first moment the experience in the tutorial was a lot more fun. The short pygmie scene was enjoyable and far more replayable than what I am used to. Stumbling around the newbie areas was also very enjoyable and far less tedious (for me) than the other IREs I have experienced. Unfortuantely for me, that is where the enjoyment mostly ended. After being thrust out of the newbie zones at level 20 I felt very misguided with next to no direction as to what to do. It may be because I overlooked the 'tasks' line or maybe because I forgot about it entirely, but I ended up stumbling around for about 3 hours until I was eventually picked up by a very helpful set of people who showed me where I could hunt and gave me supplies and explained a few things. Still not remembering about the tasks, I ended up bashing to level 50-something before another newbie (actually another friend who retired elsewhere to come to Achaea) reminded me that there are a set of tasks which are designed for orientating players post tutorial. 

Being invited for a raid at level 20-something was extremely fulfilling and even though I was numbly hitting things with my mace, being completely stopped because I ended up becoming deaf and blind at one point with no cures or tattoos, I enjoyed the experience thoroughly. Even after being boomeranged(?) from just inside Targossas and being killed in what felt like 1-2 balances, I enjoyed how quickly I was pulled into the world.

The theft mechanic has left an extremely bad taste in my mouth and, even if it's very easily avoidable, as a complete newbie to the game and not having experienced it, it was extremely offputting. Losing the work of my some 20 hours experience in an instant and then being told that it as A ) my fault and B ) that I can make it back in an instant\I should just ask my city to give me more gold was not the experience I was looking for in a new mud. I don't know if this is merely a trend which I am used to but usually if you beat someone easily, you're meant to give them advice as to how to be better or to help them. I know I can only complain the first time and not the second or third time it has happened in my short duration of play, but it really destroyed my want to keep trying after I lost all my progress the second time, especially after someone replaced the gold. I would have much preferred just being killed one, twice, thrice or any number of times.  

Maybe if I was more confident and had the personality who could ask for help more on CT/Newbie I would have enjoyed the experience a lot more, but I figure that if I had this kind of experience, other people might also.
I'll probably come back soon but for now, I think I'll just stick to my mud.

I would like to leave this, though:
Just because it's easy for you to do something, and yes, it might be easy and very straight forward once you're used to it, but that doesn't mean that a newbie is going to understand it or know how to do it or even remember how to do it.

Edit: Unintentional emoji
SarapisTahquilSzanthaxQwynGamdenPeronelleAereidhnaSwithKyrraAchillesRazzloNataliiaDochitha
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Comments

  • CitrusCitrus Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    As far as the theft part goes, that's always been a big point of conflict in Achaea, especially for unsuspecting novices.  I believe there are rules in place against stealing from someone under level 20, though I think the problem stems from how quickly players get to level 20 and are just thrown into the world without much transition.  I myself and I'm sure most all Achaeans have been the victim of theft (or at least attempted theft).  Believe it or not things are better than they used to be, one day many many years ago I was commissioned to implant a totem for a personal house, while implanting they locked the door so I couldn't leave and proceeded to steal everything I had on me without anything I could even do. 

    I'm sure someone's told you already but Selfishness in Survival is your best bet for anti-theft.  Hope this bad experience doesn't turn you off to Achaea, there's much more good than bad!
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Was it the same thief all three times?
  • VacodaVacoda Member Posts: 3
    edited February 2016
    Thank you all for your responses! I think I worded my initial post too heavily towards my experience with the stealing mechanic, the loss of direction was just as frustrating and the two together made it pretty unenjoyable, especially as a newbie who could just walk away and not come back. I think the lack of understanding surrounding both merely made me feel helpless, even though it was slightly outlined to me after the first time.

    That would be unfair to them to answer that question. The onus was on me to not be stolen from.
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,054 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The rate at which one passes out of newbie these days is ridiculously quick. Because of exp fallow, you could easily get yourself thrown out of the newbie areas after only a couple of rounds of Gheladan plus tasks, if you killed everything in sight. There's just plain not enough newbie time. 


    MelodieMamiAereidhnaQuisse
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    I think reviews like this are exactly what we need as both an admin team and a player base. Imagine the amount of players that are new, the same thing happens to, and the just leave. 

    Thank you @Vacoda  for leaving those comments and i hope together we can build a better tomorrow (for both you and tour little pickpokcet...)

    Definitely demonstrates to me what I personally need to do to help newer players.



    GamdenNataliia
  • KafzielKafziel Member Posts: 658 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Sad you're not sticking around and sorry for getting you killed in the crypt I was just trying to be friendly :(
  • GamdenGamden Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Dammit @Kafziel what did u do!

    Achaea was my very first mud..all these years ago(the days i had a black book with pen drawn maps in them)

    I got stolen from a few times,my biggests defence was fall asleep.But it forced me to use the banking system also creating some triggers.

    Achaea has such an amazing community of players,Im sure if you ask some older city members they can help you setting up basic reflexes.

    Someone mentioned a time limit on not getting stolen from,I think thats a good idea.

    Thanx for the great review!

  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,300 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Did you read any of the help files you were instructed to in the newbie intro, or upon joining your city or house? There are several automatic reminders of the task system, which combined with the help files you were instructed to read upon joining house/city, would have solved every problem you've written about. I suggest you read what you're told to in the future.

  • VacodaVacoda Member Posts: 3
    edited February 2016
    Joining the city was done in the tutorial and I wasn't directed to any help files within the city archives. Post 20 there were no automated reminders for me. I read everything I was hinted towards reading.
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,054 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Speaking on city/house channel is one of those things that, for some reason, I never noticed a proper alert or task for. You got one for speaking on newbie, but if people didn't tell me to use CT <blah> back then, I dont' think I'd have known. Rather than the task before speaking on newbie, I think it'd be better to get them to speak directly on CT instead. The same for HNT and stuff. 


  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Cooper said:
    Did you read any of the help files you were instructed to in the newbie intro, or upon joining your city or house? There are several automatic reminders of the task system, which combined with the help files you were instructed to read upon joining house/city, would have solved every problem you've written about. I suggest you read what you're told to in the future.
    I appreciate your general perspective as a long-time player, but telling people to read more help files is rarely a good answer.

    There's a reason we have better methods of learning in the real world other than just handing someone a stack of books, you know?
    AtalkezCesarinaShirszaeNataliia
  • TeshaTesha Member Posts: 2,935 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Aw, sorry, @Vacoda. I tried to make sure you were adjusting to the game okay but there was a huge flood of novices, and you might not have gotten all the help you needed. I hope you decide to come back, you were fun to play with. :)

     i'm a rebel

    Atalkez
  • MagentaMagenta EuropeMember Posts: 160 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    First of all, thank you very much for the feedback @Vacoda. We currently had some major revamps and remodelling done in the way Targossian novices are being taken care of - it used to be done "manually" with a series of assessments, where people were going through various areas of the game mechanics (curing, culture, geography, theology), most of which are now automated tasks. As we're still trying to figure out suitable ways of getting the word across, we actually wanted to get away from the book-reading and into doing stuff (along the lines of what @Sarapis already explained).

    For us, it's helpful to know that you felt "alone" after doing the newbie stuff, though I have to admit that we have seldomly people falling "through the cracks" like you have. It does happen, though. We'll try to juggle things so it happens less often. And take up @Atalkez' offer with the killing of the thief! ;)
    AtalkezDochitha
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,300 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Cooper said:
    Did you read any of the help files you were instructed to in the newbie intro, or upon joining your city or house? There are several automatic reminders of the task system, which combined with the help files you were instructed to read upon joining house/city, would have solved every problem you've written about. I suggest you read what you're told to in the future.
    I appreciate your general perspective as a long-time player, but telling people to read more help files is rarely a good answer.

    There's a reason we have better methods of learning in the real world other than just handing someone a stack of books, you know?
    Agreed, I'm just not a fan of someone waltzing through everything not paying attention, and then complaining they weren't told how to do things that they were given information on.

    Elowin
  • ValkynValkyn Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Aepas said:
    Why not have an NPC steal gold from the player, run off, and you get to kill him to retrieve it. After that another denizen tells you to be careful and remember to keep Selfishness up because there's always someone looking for your gold. 

    Edit: In the newbie zone or tutorial. 
    Might encourage them to attack a real thief which would then just get them killed. Something interactive would be good though - maybe another denizen intercepting the thief and handing it back. 

    Razzlo
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,799 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Selfishness ought to be lower in survival imo. One of the first skills
    Dochitha
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aegoth said:
    Selfishness ought to be lower in survival imo. One of the first skills
    It's only like 20 something lessons in now, I'm pretty sure
  • AesiAesi Member Posts: 1,222 @ - Epic Achaean
    Kiet said:
    Aegoth said:
    Selfishness ought to be lower in survival imo. One of the first skills
    It's only like 20 something lessons in now, I'm pretty sure
    think like 33, but it's nothing to get. Agreed that it would be cool if it were worked into the newbie tutorial though. Work it in as a cutscene in the bar with the various tutorial heroes that you are talking to. give em the lessons and have them learn it then.
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,054 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It was already made lower. You get it in a handful of lessons.

    I think another solution would be to up the permissible theft rank from 30 to 40 or even 50.

    'Back in the day', we didn't have Manara or Actar, or any of these level-easy places. Getting to level 80 was considered an achievement. Now we have players who are capable of getting dragon in two weeks. Levelling isn't hard, even for someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. The client has tabbed targeting and you can even just use KILL <blah> that makes things easier even if you're not using a thirdparty client like mudlet and bashing scripts.

    We just have to accept that the baseline for what really constitutes 'novice level' has risen significantly over the years.




  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,047 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah it's not surprising to see a complete newb at level 50 just a few hours out of the tutorial. Your first several hours of the game are spent leveling up, either through the tasks or hunting to get gold for elixirs/vials/clothes etc. 

    I think a good idea would be to raise the level you get kicked out of Minia/Lodi to 40 perhaps, and make theft on any character under say level 50 impossible. I'm not sure if these levels work or not, but it seems to be the best option.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Razzlo
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,799 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Skye's still a novice. Gg
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Aegoth said:
    Skye's still a novice. Gg
    So am I :(



  • AesiAesi Member Posts: 1,222 @ - Epic Achaean
    Made a newb other than aesi, it was bothering me:


    Selfishness (Survival) Known: No (27 lessons required)

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Syntax: SELFISHNESS

    GENEROSITY

    Cooldown: 0.50 seconds of equilibrium

    Details:

    With this ability, you may cause yourself to become so selfish that you can't give away a thing. Exceptions to this are sigils and boomerangs.



  • IsmayIsmay Member Posts: 690 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Instead of relying on level, it might be better to go with age as an indicator. Leveling is very easy for new players, as has already been said here. Age could be a better judge of a newbie's actual game experience.
    Give us shop logs!

    Pretty please...
    KatsuragiNataliia
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Your theft grace drops after your 20th birthday?
    IsmayNataliiaDochithaKesher
  • AereidhnaAereidhna DallasMember Posts: 682 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I like the age idea better, but I also really love the suggestions about adding theft to the intro (as well as learning selfishness) - although Cyrene has a city task about anti-theft/selfishness, if the other cities do as well that could be redundant. (But then again rogues need it too. So all for adding to intro.)
  • WorvesWorves Member Posts: 31 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I disagree with the age thing only because it's really easy to get caught up in finals or some serious rl stuff, and then you could bypass it. I'd much prefer to see it be based on actual playing time, but I'm unsure of a good way to make that viewable. Maybe just an aura or something that exists so long as you haven't crossed the line?
    Aereidhna
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