Continuing to RP worshiping dead Divine?

Synbios

Jiraishin said:

I so hope Apollyon doesn't get kicked. The Order and the Temple are just incredibly cool and add an entirely different flavor to Mhaldor.

That's what the Miramar Order also thought about their own order, and look what happened to them.  

Jiraishin

Yes but they don't have to deal with a city where everything is colored crimson and stygian. I never even thought of stygian as a color before.

Boosteya

Jiraishin said:

Embrace Suffering.

So... in His honour... everybody in Mhaldor must listen to SOOTHING music? :P

Edit: On a more serious note, the idea of people continuing to worship Divine that we all OOCly know are permaGone is not new. Right, Erisians?

Aerek

I think worshiping a dead divine is valid as long as you adapt to realize that the God or Goddess is actually dead and gone. Continuing to believe in the idea or concepts that God/Goddess embodied could be laudable and credible, but sticking fingers in your ears and shouting, "Hermes isn't dead, casinos and gambling still exist, so He can't be dead, we're going to do everything just like we did before this happened" (No offense Hermae, just using an example.) expresses only a complete disconnection with reality.

To be honest, the fact that Gods have died (Within my lifetime, I know it's happened before) but their "realms" remain behind even after (The idea of "luck" isn't going to disappear with Hermes, nor "justice" without Miramar) is going to lead Aerek's perspective on how Gods and their Realms coexist and are (or aren't) co-dependent in an entirely new direction. I look forward to exploring and debating that line of thought.

Vayne

The realms are static for the most part, the Gods are not, many realms have been represented by multiple Gods throughout the ages, and some realms did not obtain a God until later (Moon).

I would not expect the characters to just say "Ok, my God's dead, time to move on." That's not natural, they have invested their lives in the service of these dieties; it's only natural that many will linger or never get over/completely get over the loss of their Father/Mother.

Lyndee

It's a huge question, and one that I think is probably answered for most who had any kind of serious relationship with the God of our choice: of course you will continue roleplaying an allegiance/worship/respect/honor of a God even though they have died. Unless your character is the type for whom allegiances do not necessarily run deep or last long, of course, this is just a matter of scale.

For me, there's no way around it. I can't rewrite 200+ years of history and backstory, even if I wanted to. Miramar is the one and only God Lyndee has ever worshiped. The connection she had was not just to Justice (which will live on) but to Miramar. I will admit outright that I have been very fortunate to have had the opportunity to interact and develop relationships in game with different iterations of Miramar. So, now, there's a tremendous sense of grief and loss that she will never overcome.

That being said, I think there's tremendous limitations that people in our position face. We can pursue the advancement/worship of those realms whose Gods are gone, but through light touches..gatherings or discussions or relics created in honor of/memory of are fine, if you've got the time and energy to work it in to your ongoing roleplay. I think trying to cobble together anything exceptionally formal is likely a mistake. Anyone who has been through the ups and downs of Order membership can tell you that worshiping a God who is technically 'alive' but without an active player can be brutal; trying to worship a God who is not even alive is just a nightmare waiting to happen.

My guess is that the puppeteers behind the curtain here have thought these things through and understand the potential ramifications for some players. I'd hope that the shift that is coming our way in terms of how we think about our Achaean worlds is so significant that we will find a way to move gracefully from one framework to another. If it's done well, perhaps we won't feel that persistent compulsion to fall back on familiarity, or to build back what we used to have with none of the formalized trappings therein. 

I guess my point is: the Gods are embodiments of their realms, and they may die, but those realms will live on. Acknowledge that, cherish it, and try to fit your character's roleplay around it. In the meantime, try to breathe deeply and not obsess over the amount of time you've spent on an organization that is now lost, while we wait to see what the Achaean New World Order will bring us.

Jhaeli

This may be looking at it rather simplistically, but one could almost consider it as an analogy for when you lose someone close to you IRL. It isn't an easy process and there's no quick "moving on" for anyone invested in a relationship of any kind. And like other losses, each player/character will individually decide when it's right for them to move on to establish a new relationship, should they ever choose that route.

In other words, I think this is a genuine opportunity to use the natural resulting grief (both ICly and OOCly) to build depth in one's character and that's likely the approach I would take in this situation. Like a widow left behind by the loss of a spouse, one can eventually choose to get to the point where they're ready to move on with a new Divine, but it's up to the individual to decide when that is and until then choosing to honour their memory is a very viable choice.

(Which I do think includes a cult or two popping up claiming that "So-and-So isn't really dead! I have Seen it!" Just be prepared for the rest of Sapience to pat you carefully on the head while they toss you into Creville.)

Vasool

@Jhaeli makes valid points. Her parenthetical statement makes me imagine some of the sneakier divine "posing" as the dead divine to trick cult followers into doing their bidding. Man I would kill to see something like this happen  : )

Tanris

Where art thou Twilight.

Jhaeli

Vasool said:

@Jhaeli makes valid points. Her parenthetical statement makes me imagine some of the sneakier divine "posing" as the dead divine to trick cult followers into doing their bidding. Man I would kill to see something like this happen  : )

Well, I was mostly trying to be amusing, but I do think it's a perfectly acceptable option - and it doesn't have to include Divine help. The reality is that people DO become mentally unhinged during a period of loss sometimes and can deliberately delude themselves into thinking that their cherished one is still around.

In the case of the loss of one's Divine, I could see it starting as an individual or two who is pitied by local society who then possibly rallies a few more to their cause. Just as long as a) it isn't overdone by too many different groups (actually, I think one would be the maximum) and b) anyone choosing this route realises what it would do to their IC reputation. And that it would never actually result in the return of their deity. This could then be used by others (like the Darkwalkers) to further their own ends, etc.

The Caspiites are a current example of this, although theirs is much more rooted in malicious mayhem rather than genuine grief.

Vayne

Tanris said:

Where art thou Twilight.

He's waiting to come out at the very end to reveal he orchestrated the whole thing to further the Great Work, obviously.

Xith

Yeah, still just waiting for Babel and Twilight to go all "bash brothers" and show this guy who's boss.

 

Lodi

BOOM!!

Told you Apollyon was gona snuff it.

I actually don't feel as bad as I thought I would. I'm nearly 99% certain that something new and very, very cool is going to come out of all this.

Achilles

Lodi said:

BOOM!!

Told you Apollyon was gona snuff it.

I actually don't feel as bad as I thought I would. I'm nearly 99% certain that something new and very, very cool is going to come out of all this.

You are totally right.  You can trust Apple to always improve.

Ugh, how do you embed videos.  Oh well.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RyWSEwKPo8s

Mishgul

Lodi said:

BOOM!!

Told you Apollyon was gona snuff it.

I actually don't feel as bad as I thought I would. I'm nearly 99% certain that something new and very, very cool is going to come out of all this.

I am feeling incredibly sad >: On the bright side, purges!

Lodi

Yeah, I do feel like crap, just not as crap as I thought I would. I'm staying positive by focusing upon the possibility of something new and really neat coming along. If it doesn't, then oh well, I'm more than happy to continue to worship Suffering until Judgment Day and beyond.

Mishgul

Glad you are planning on sticking it out. I'm not sure I can handle Shaitan going but I am preparing for the worst

Lodi

The only thing that would probably get to me is if they just left us with Vengeance and nothing else... Not that I've got anything against Vengeance, it would just RP suck if they did that.

Tvistor

Vengeance does not stand very well on its own as a philosophy. It really only works in Mhaldor because all Mhaldorian citizens are theoretically as devoted to the Twin Lords as even the full Suffering/Oppression Order members.

Beya

@Lodi You totally called it.

I joked with @Keresis at the meet that Her realm is basically full of people with tear-stained mascara, sitting on bed at home and cutting photos of ex boyfriends in half. To exact Vengeance you first have to be a victim.

For those wondering, this is probably the most effective way to die consecutively to lightning or crows.

Will the realm of Suffering now fall under Shaitan? Will he re-absorb Apollyon's corpse and become Sartan again?

Lodi

Beya said:

Will the realm of Suffering now fall under Shaitan? Will he re-absorb Apollyon's corpse and become Sartan again?

That's the big question. Are we perhaps seeing the re-birth of Sartan? What I'd love to see is that the rich theologies that have grown up within Oppression and Suffering aren't abruptly abandoned, but are instead worked into one whole; a Twin ideology, if you will, instead of Twin gods.

It would be a shame to just see the richness of Suffering disappear.

Jiraishin

Noooo I already miss that beautiful Temple.

Nizaris

And I was just now getting around to working on Order req's ...

Synbios

Synbios said:

Jiraishin said:

I so hope Apollyon doesn't get kicked. The Order and the Temple are just incredibly cool and add an entirely different flavor to Mhaldor.

That's what the Miramar Order also thought about their own order, and look what happened to them.  

Welp, called it.

Tilly

Your abilities as a soothsayer will damn you one day.

Alynna

Tvistor said:

Vengeance does not stand very well on its own as a philosophy. It really only works in Mhaldor because all Mhaldorian citizens are theoretically as devoted to the Twin Lords as even the full Suffering/Oppression Order members.

You do know I wrote a whole book on how it can stand on it's own, right? :P

I spent months figuring out a way so that the realm is not a victim's game but that of a proactive realm that seized what it could, and utterly destroyed anything that stopped you.

Tvistor

Stand on its own within Mhaldor*, rather.

Xith

 

Will the realm of Suffering now fall under Shaitan? Will he re-absorb Apollyon's corpse and become Sartan again?

Or will he snap and sit in a closet with the corpse, brushing its hair and sniffling through tears of mascara as a member of Keresis' order? Stay tuned.

Tarkanian

Xith said:

 

Will the realm of Suffering now fall under Shaitan? Will he re-absorb Apollyon's corpse and become Sartan again?

Or will he snap and sit in a closet with the corpse, brushing its hair and sniffling through tears of mascara as a member of Keresis' order? Stay tuned.

ORRR... he takes the corpse, puts a bright red fright wig and a sundress on it, and affectionately calls it "Ma".

Tsara

I do feel like crap because Apollyon died, but mostly because I am dormant while it happened