Achaean Alts and Retirement

Tessa

For the two other threads I've seen in this forum, my little thoughts don't exactly seem to fit. I don't want to start anything here so lets please keep it civil. This is sheerly out of mixed curiosity and mild confusion. Also keep in mind that while I have tried other IRE games in the past, I only play Achaea.

I've thought of alts before, and tried probably a dozen myself. None of them lasted more than a few weeks maximum. Kind of unsettling how few really seemed to stick. Always ended up going back to my main. Gave up on the concept alts for the most part. This new feature, however, really has me thinking.

Personally, I have two characters in Achaea. One's dormant (you can guess which isn't), though I still have trouble calling either an alt. With how long I've been without playing the other, she could (with enough effort and a number of other people having mild memory lapses) go any number of ways. Existing characters , no matter how bad ICly, can usually be turned in most directions with enough effort. They already have foundations, depth, skills, histories that add to their colour and personality. There's a good amount of preexisting content to work with and those characters are usually something you already enjoy, or used to enjoy. Alts, on the other hand, are blank slates with nothing but a shell to be filled. The filling can be entertaining as you flesh out a brand new idea, but getting them seated in the world can be a real pain, and potentially thwart the idea, killing the interest in said alt. At least for me.

With that in mind I just can't see any reason to say, use this to retire my dormant character and start an alt instead of just trying to revive and relocate/rehabilitate her. Now if I had a character with credits on it in another IRE game and decided to migrate to another, I could definitely see the use. As it is, I don't exactly see the point or feel compelled to use it.

So my question is: Why are you using or would you use the retirement system in lieu of reviving an old character?

Trevize

I view my characters as stories. I start writing them, I have no idea where they'll go or when they'll end. I do expect them to end, however. Trevize has been done for a while, and my investment is the only reason I kept with him.

Achaea has been unique when it comes to my RP games, because of the amount of money I invest. This helps level that field.

Kiet

I wouldn't really retire a character unless they were, themselves, an alt I made to try something (new classes, new cities, whatever). I can't picture ever retiring Kiet, but then again I'm one of those people that thinks living forever would never get tiring. I don't think anyone's story ever needs to run out, and at most I'd take breaks (like I have in the past). If I ever stopped playing Kiet for good it'd be because I quit Achaea, probably, in which case retirement would be useless (I have little to no interest in the other IRE games).

I get wanting to try new types of characters and stories, though. But for that I'd just make an alt. The only reason I care about Kiet's credits/lessons/artefacts are because I like PK, and I have little motivation to PK with 50% of the (rather meager by most people's standards) amount I have accumulated on him.

Of course, maybe part of that is I've never had specific goals for Kiet beforehand. I've always just let whatever happened happen, and I don't try to play him as being separate from the 'ordinary' people. That leaves it fairly open-ended for me.

Sasiya

I was really active in Achaea when I first started playing IRE games, but eventually moved on to Aetolia (where I've invested far more time, effort, and money). Whenever I felt tired of Aetolia or didn't have any other games to play, I came back to Achaea. Whenever Tecton implemented new, interesting features, I also came back back.

Personally, I have a really hard time with extended leaves from games. It's not strictly speaking Achaea, it was the same thing with Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. You log into a character, you're max level, have all the skills and gear, and your knowledge doesn't match it. At all.

Just to put it into the context of Achaea: I have all the artifacts in the game, but if we get raided, I can only spam aconite/curare DSLs. People call out locations, and I don't know where they are. I hear references to recent events, and I have no clue what anyone is talking about. I can use dragonform, but I need to deposit 500 gold and get two health vials just to fulfill house novice requirements. Then I fail the interview because I forgot to also buy a shirt to wear with my suit of armour. Maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but you get my point.

A fresh slate can just be a relief. People don't have any preconcieved notions about your character. You're free to pursue the line of RP you want to, without it causing conflict with your established character's personality/goals/ideals. You also get the opportunity to incorporate yourself into the game in a much more fluid manner. You join a city, you join a house, maybe someone invites you to their family, you work onwards from there. If you're 450 years old formerly Infernal, you have to jump through some hoops just to become a sentinel or whatever.

Also, my retirement credits can be used in whichever game I feel like trying out.

Naverre

Honestly, Naverre has been a ghost that's been haunting my play for a long time. I liked where I wanted to take him, but I just couldn't seem to get him there. As much as I tried, playing him was slow, boring, and just a massive grind no matter what I was doing. And I hated trying to start a new character that, even with the Iron Elite credits, would take forever to get the same skills and arties. The frustration of being held back like that, especially since I'm not really in a place to spend huge amounts of money on the game, made me unable to stick with those characters. I always got the urge to play Achaea, got on Nav or someone new, and ended up quitting out of frustration, over and over again.

This both helps me put Naverre to rest, along with a couple other old characters I just had floating around that were fit for retirement, and helps me start a new character that's more fun now that I don't have to worry about working towards all those conveniences. Someone without all the baggage in-game (and in my head) that Nav has.

It's kind of sad, mostly because a part of me always wanted to get him going, but it was never going to happen. Like Sasiya said, it's a relief, a huge relief, to start brand new.

Melodie

I think as writers to stories, we all have different views to how we approach things, including how (and if) we would actually "end" a character's story. For instance, J.K. Rowling isn't writing anymore Harry Potters (despite the world certainly living on). That's her choice. Then again, there's many book series that go on and on, until the author gets very old or dies.

The same could be applied to the retirement system, despite the simplistic example above. Personally, I would never retire Melodie. It's not just the monetary investment, but rather her story, history, influence, and the emotion that comes with having played a character with such a wild ride. Much like Kiet, I would likely just quit Achaea rather than actually close the chapter on her book forever. Unlike Kiet, I have had a series of goals, which is usually a driving force, but I also make sure to keep an open mind to new goals, new experiences, or just going with the flow of what's happening. The mix allows me to continue to refine her. Happily, there's still plenty of her story left to write and play out.

On the other hand, I can totally see where a character just becomes more baggage and struggle than fun. I have a few friends around me - some I've known only a little while, some for years and years - who are retiring long-standing characters. Some just feel they've done what they wanted with the character. Others, simply can't find a way to push them forward that's fun. Some just want to "reroll", or start over, with fresh possibility. It'll definitely be hard, but sometimes a clean slate (and a pocket full of sunshine credits) is what people need to be re-invigorated.

I'll admit that I believe doing that within 14 days seems... overly optimistic, and I hope perhaps in the future, it'll change to something more like 30 days. But other than that, I think it's all in just how you approach writing, gameplay in general, and the type of investment you have in your character.

Sena

I've been playing Achaea for more than 13 years (and I just realised that I've been playing more than half my life now), which means that when I started, I was at an age that isn't known for their maturity or good decision-making skills. Thinking back to my first character (and an assortment of alts) makes me cringe a bit. Even if I did want to pick those old characters back up at this point (and I can't see why I would, I'm happy with just playing Sena), chances are they'd still, after all these years, be stuck with some unpleasant reputations and histories that would be nearly impossible to get rid of, given that quite a few people from back then are still around. If those old characters were actually worth enough to retire (the closest one is almost 200 credits away, unfortunately), I definitely would, even if the only thing I'm likely to use the credits for is testing things.

Aereidhna

I prefer a fresh slate. Dormancy and returning don't really work for me - maintaining a connection w Aereidhna while I was basically partially dormant due to moving/family/health stuff was difficult even. When I'm done with a character, no matter how much money and time I've invested, I'm just done. I have a string of throwaway alts, a couple of alts I made some progress/invested a lot of money in while 'finding' my new main (who are getting retired), and two previous mains (one years and one a decade in the past).

I struggle the most with commitment I think - I love starting new characters, developing their personality and background, but persisting through real life ups and downs, lack of time, and mistakes (especially with my social anxiety and fears that I've 'ruined' a character) is my hardest challenge. I feel I've managed this best with Aereidhna and I hope that continues because I don't see myself ever giving her up. I am not really an alting sort of person but I'm going to take the opportunity to try Aetolia with the retirement system and see what happens.

I get that a lot of people prefer to return to established characters, I'm just not one of them. I'm definitely more of a blank slate person. I love new beginnings and suck at the rest, but I'm working on that!

Tessa

Some very interesting motives and perspectives! Thanks to everyone who posted. There are a number of points that never would have likely crossed my mind, and I'm glad to see that this feature can do well for a good number of people.

Citrus

As overwhelming as it is to come back to an omni-trans class that you don't know how to play, with cities, houses, combat, bashing, and basically everyone completely different than it was I would actually love to just get a fresh start where nobody knows me, I'm not enemied to anywhere, and I can just relearn the game at a leisurely pace.  Jumping back into a high level transed character that is already known is quite daunting.

However the retirement value they give us in my opinion is complete crap, as much as I don't want to relearn how to play Citrus, the $$ loss from retiring him is ridiculous.  If the idea for this is to get older people playing again then they should give us more value for our characters.  Artefact trade-in value is 66% even, it's smarter to quit class, trade-in your arties and start over on the same character than to retire and start a new character.

Trevize

Citrus said:

As overwhelming as it is to come back to an omni-trans class that you don't know how to play, with cities, houses, combat, bashing, and basically everyone completely different than it was I would actually love to just get a fresh start where nobody knows me, I'm not enemied to anywhere, and I can just relearn the game at a leisurely pace.  Jumping back into a high level transed character that is already known is quite daunting.

However the retirement value they give us in my opinion is complete crap, as much as I don't want to relearn how to play Citrus, the $$ loss from retiring him is ridiculous.  If the idea for this is to get older people playing again then they should give us more value for our characters.  Artefact trade-in value is 66% even, it's smarter to quit class, trade-in your arties and start over on the same character than to retire and start a new character.

Argument from analogy only works with high strength of analogy. In this case, disanalogy is simple.

I think it's pretty clear this isn't meant for those who wish to keep their character. Of course that's a better value, should you wish that route. No one can argue that.

For those of us that do wish to remove our character and start new, there is no comparison to be made.

Beyond that, this allows switching IRE games, for those that wish that.

Tahquil

At least they have retirement value! I mean before you just let your credits stay on your dormant character and started a new one with nothing.

Just me but I'd take the 50% return over 0% return any day!

Trevize

Tahquil said:

At least they have retirement value! I mean before you just let your credits stay on your dormant character and started a new one with nothing.

Just me but I'd take the 50% return over 0% return any day!

Matt has said that if he gave people free credits, some would complain.

Citrus

Trevize said:

Citrus said:

As overwhelming as it is to come back to an omni-trans class that you don't know how to play, with cities, houses, combat, bashing, and basically everyone completely different than it was I would actually love to just get a fresh start where nobody knows me, I'm not enemied to anywhere, and I can just relearn the game at a leisurely pace.  Jumping back into a high level transed character that is already known is quite daunting.

However the retirement value they give us in my opinion is complete crap, as much as I don't want to relearn how to play Citrus, the $$ loss from retiring him is ridiculous.  If the idea for this is to get older people playing again then they should give us more value for our characters.  Artefact trade-in value is 66% even, it's smarter to quit class, trade-in your arties and start over on the same character than to retire and start a new character.

Argument from analogy only works with high strength of analogy. In this case, disanalogy is simple.

I think it's pretty clear this isn't meant for those who wish to keep their character. Of course that's a better value, should you wish that route. No one can argue that.

For those of us that do wish to remove our character and start new, there is no comparison to be made.

Beyond that, this allows switching IRE games, for those that wish that.

Well it's retirement, obviously it's for people who don't wish to keep their character, myself being one of them, and if I could justify throwing thousands of dollars in the garbage for a superficial "fresh start" than I absolutely would.

Seems as of now it's targeted specifically at a very small audience, which could just be to test out the desire/functionality of it before making any changes.  Maybe it's just me, but losing thousands of dollars or begrudgingly continuing a character I'd rather reroll, not losing money wins everytime.  Although I suppose some can think of that money as already spent and having gotten the value out of it.

As for why it is the way it is, you have to look at it from business decision more than a "nice thing for our players" decision, as IRE is a business.  And from the business side of it what is their goal with retirement?  To get old players who stopped playing and haven't started because it's overwhelming to come back and play again?  To make current players happy by allowing them to retire old characters they don't play for credits?  Or to allow people to try out other IRE games/come to Achaea?

Kasya

I remember having a discussion on the idea of remorts years ago, well before I started Kasya and decided to bite the bullet and invest anew in a character, and being told it wasn't ever going to happen. At the time though, I'd have loved for 50% but I wasn't sure if the idea ever did happen that we'd get that much. All of a sudden, retirement is a thing and you get 50% value for whatever you still have (makes sense, if you had traded in artefacts or switched class prior, you already got that back, either in credits or lessons, and you knew you weren't getting the full amount back.) 

I looked at it more as an investment into a new character as well rather than just reclaiming the old character. Especially since now you can get 2000 lessons for $20, as well as a one-time 300 credit package for $50. So your little newb can tri-trans rather quickly, and start looking at other things. I don't know, after being told for years it wouldn't ever happen, they made it happen and didn't really hold back. I'm pretty damn happy about it.

Trevize

Citrus said:

Well it's retirement, obviously it's for people who don't wish to keep their character, myself being one of them, and if I could justify throwing thousands of dollars in the garbage for a superficial "fresh start" than I absolutely would.

Seems as of now it's targeted specifically at a very small audience, which could just be to test out the desire/functionality of it before making any changes.  Maybe it's just me, but losing thousands of dollars or begrudgingly continuing a character I'd rather reroll, not losing money wins everytime.  Although I suppose some can think of that money as already spent and having gotten the value out of it.

As for why it is the way it is, you have to look at it from business decision more than a "nice thing for our players" decision, as IRE is a business.  And from the business side of it what is their goal with retirement?  To get old players who stopped playing and haven't started because it's overwhelming to come back and play again?  To make current players happy by allowing them to retire old characters they don't play for credits?  Or to allow people to try out other IRE games/come to Achaea?

As a business decision, I see this more of a player retention move than a simple money maker. There is a tradeoff of people that would start new characters and spend even more money without the half from the original, and those who would otherwise leave. Where that balance lies is hard to gauge. Ultimately, I see this as a 'here's an alternative to quitting - start over, here or elsewhere.' The audience isn't large, but keeping one player has the same business value as gaining many more new ones.

It isn't for everyone, and for those that don't see this as a good deal, ignoring it will not harm in the slightest. For those that do, we appreciate being presented this offer.

Trevize

Kasya said:

I remember having a discussion on the idea of remorts years ago, well before I started Kasya and decided to bite the bullet and invest anew in a character, and being told it wasn't ever going to happen. At the time though, I'd have loved for 50% but I wasn't sure if the idea ever did happen that we'd get that much. All of a sudden, retirement is a thing and you get 50% value for whatever you still have (makes sense, if you had traded in artefacts or switched class prior, you already got that back, either in credits or lessons, and you knew you weren't getting the full amount back.) 

I looked at it more as an investment into a new character as well rather than just reclaiming the old character. Especially since now you can get 2000 lessons for $20, as well as a one-time 300 credit package for $50. So your little newb can tri-trans rather quickly, and start looking at other things. I don't know, after being told for years it wouldn't ever happen, they made it happen and didn't really hold back. I'm pretty damn happy about it.

I was able to start a new character with over 5k credits. I'm pretty hyped. Already played this char in the last few days more than I have Trevize in a month. And I'm not the type to lose interest very fast at all. Trevize was what, 383 years old? 365 years cutting out the 18 you start at. 12 days in an Achaean year? Turns into roughly 12 years. I'd honestly be surprised if I quit this new character before another 10 years went by.

Szanthax

Welcome back muha

Trevize

Szanthax said:

Welcome back muha

Not sure if you're talking to me but... who said I made an Achaea character?

Trevize

Sena said:

I've been playing Achaea for more than 13 years (and I just realised that I've been playing more than half my life now), which means that when I started, I was at an age that isn't known for their maturity or good decision-making skills. Thinking back to my first character (and an assortment of alts) makes me cringe a bit. Even if I did want to pick those old characters back up at this point (and I can't see why I would, I'm happy with just playing Sena), chances are they'd still, after all these years, be stuck with some unpleasant reputations and histories that would be nearly impossible to get rid of, given that quite a few people from back then are still around. If those old characters were actually worth enough to retire (the closest one is almost 200 credits away, unfortunately), I definitely would, even if the only thing I'm likely to use the credits for is testing things.

Odd thought, but the one 200 away may (depending on negatives?) still give you more credits. That depends on whether negatives impact the threshold or just the actual result. And how many negatives, if any, you have.

Pay 200, get 500 (half of 1k)?

Kaie

You guys are putting way too much thought into this. I just started the process and when time came clicked real fast before I can really back out of it. Once the click happens, it's a sealed deal, but now i'm filled with regret because it's been like 4 hours and i'm still locked out with no approval. Should seriously read documents fully before accepting things.  :P

 @Tectonyou should consider making the approval process part of the mandatory wait, so you're not caught in limbo like this with a locked account and a newb you can't transfer to because no retirement creds.

--Edit-- Maybe that's not @tecton's area, but pass along if you can. This is dumb. lol

Kasya

Kaie said:

You guys are putting way too much thought into this. I just started the process and when time came clicked real fast before I can really back out of it. Once the click happens, it's a sealed deal, but now i'm filled with regret because it's been like 4 hours and i'm still locked out with no approval. Should seriously read documents fully before accepting things.  :P

 @Tectonyou should consider making the approval process part of the mandatory wait, so you're not caught in limbo like this with a locked account and a newb you can't transfer to because no retirement creds.

--Edit-- Maybe that's not @tecton's area, but pass along if you can. This is dumb. lol

It took less than 24 hours on my characters to get my retirement credits. That wait isn't that bad. Relax. Level your newb out of Minia. 

Quisse

Every few years, I just want to start over. I enjoy starting from scratch, creating an entirely new concept and persona, and bringing that to life. I enjoy letting circumstance dictate direction. I know I'm absolutely in the minority.

Quisse is my third "main."  She's great...for now! :awesome: 

Kafziel

Quisse said:

Every few years, I just want to start over. I enjoy starting from scratch, creating an entirely new concept and persona, and bringing that to life. I enjoy letting circumstance dictate direction. I know I'm absolutely in the minority.

Quisse is my third "main."  She's great...for now! :awesome: 

plz don't retire