Food for thought for Eleusis RP

Lothien

Something I stumbled across while researching stuff about D&D:

7 Myths Everyone Believes About Druids

http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2014/09/7-myths-everyone-believes-about-druids.html?m=0

And I think a lot of it (though not all) could apply to Eleusis. I've not really wanted to log in recently because it seems everyone wants to be a green Cyrene -- which I suppose is fine for an individual, but it makes Eleusis feel very stagnant.

Kiet

Odd to call it green Cyrene when Eleusis is being pretty militant at the moment. Getting lots of complaints from the green Cyrenians lately even!

Good article though, it's a much better direction for Eleusis than some people want.

Aerek

While a "green Cyrene" might be boring to you, one-dimensional psychopathic savages are definitely not an improvement. Don't think, don't talk, kill indiscriminately, and actively avoid anything resembling culture? This guy's Druids sound like the single most boring, tiresome characters I could ever think to deal with. They sound like an Elder Scrolls character, fit for a single-player game where your "RP" can get away with being an unthinking, irrational, over-exaggerated trope of a concept. In Achaea?  They'd be Eleusis' Qashar, lacking depth, restraint, and completely detrimental to their own faction's credibility.

Militant nature worship has its place, and it sounds like the Scion half of Eleusis does push that aspect, but we have factions for blinders-on zealotry already, and I already find those factions bland and predictable. Achaea is cool because it has room for nuanced, multi-faceted ideology, or societies that have several factions working within them with different perspectives, which is what makes the world alive and real. There's an old adage, "Any philosophy that can fit inside a nutshell belongs there." The more people try to simplify their ideals into easy talking points, or reduce themselves to archetypal tropes like this article, the less I want to interact with them. When all a Mhaldorian or Targossian can do is spout the Truths or Bloodsworn at me, I'll just show myself the door; they don't have anything new to say and clearly can't function beyond regurgitating their pre-written script. That's droll.

Sure, be tribal, be savage. But don't be flat and predictable. Don't be stupid. Don't reduce what could be an interesting religion into an echo chamber of "kill things not like me". I would very much hope no one in Eleusis takes this article's advice beyond embracing a culture that's a little less urbane and a little more wild.

Melodie

Definitely an interesting article, though one issue jumps out at me. A quote from it:

"The philosophy of a druid is "no philosophy"."

That's pretty difficult to pull off in a game geared on philosophy and centers of conflict like Achaea. There has to be at least some, even if not very extensive like Good or Evil.

Otherwise seems to fit at least some of the direction people take.

Kiet

I don't think he's implying Eleusis has to be literally what the article described, simply take cues from it.

You can be militant and still nuanced, and Achaea's the only place I've ever seen that be something that people find issue with. Even blatant war-porn books/games/etc. try to fit in depth to characters and no one finds it shocking.

The real issue with militancy in Achaea, quite honestly, is that people don't want to be at risk. The idea that militancy is for 'flat' characters and 'bad roleplayers' is a semi-transparent attempt at discrediting the ideologies that would make people actually have to occasionally lose some xp.

Exelethril

That article, while interesting, is quite narrow-minded and focused entirely on the predatory/savage side of Nature. It doesn't take into account the more pleasant/elegant aspects of Nature : like blooming flowers, breezes, waterfalls, fruits, animal empathy etc.

Lothien

Exelethril said:

That article, while interesting, is quite narrow-minded and focused entirely on the predatory/savage side of Nature. It doesn't take into account the more pleasant/elegant aspects of Nature : like blooming flowers, breezes, waterfalls, fruits, animal empathy etc.

Sure, which is why it's just a guide / thing for people to think about, not word-for-word reinact. Obviously Achaea is different than D&D campaigns.

Aegoth

I thought it was already established that Eleusis' RP was derived from wanton, rampant mudsex

Anedhel

From what I've seen, while Eleusis doesn't seem to be violent for the sake of being violent, it's closer to these concepts (admittedly from a third person perspective) than it is to a 'Green Cyrene.' I think Eleusis' Gods and government have done a really wonderful job of balancing a tougher vision of Nature that embraces predation and hatred of Cities (Rangor's attitude springs to mind) with making it a bearable place to be (by which I mean, not a place of conflict 24/7 which, as cool as it may sound, really gets to be a drag after a few RL months).

 I think Eleusis is in a pretty great place right now, and has pretty good stuff on the horizon- you have some really good writers there in Ellodin, Gaia, Alrena, and so on that you can build on to make it an engaging place to play in if you put the time in.

Aodfionn

Eleusis now seems 1000% better than it was when Lothien and I were both noobs. Thanks, Artemis/Gaia/whoever voted for good leadership.

Edit: This, coming from someone whose chief complaint about Eleusis is that it was Green Cyrene. As for @Aerek 's point, I think there's a big difference between 'room for nuance' (which I argue there's room for in Mhaldor and Targ too, even if you don't happen to see much of it) in Eleusis and 'actual nuance.' Eleusis pre-Gaia/Artemis Dream Team, aside from the hardcore militant forestals, didn't seem to be terribly nuanced, unless I just happened to be missing some awesome RP done by people who used emoticons on CT long before modifiers were a thing.

Arahaelon

I think druids can be similar to werewolves in WoD. Ie they are fierce, but have a code of honor. They gladly hunt and protect the natural world, but don't let the "inner beast" simply take over lest they lose their humanity. They live in small tribes with a sort of shamanistic or animist mentality that the spirits of nature are living breathing things. Like any society they have warriors, medicine men, spies, judges, etc. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Each Forsaken werewolf who belongs to a Tribe must swear the Oath of the Moon, which acts as a moral guide for the Uratha (represented in a game system called Harmony). The tenets of the Oath are: The Wolf Must Hunt (the Uratha have to fulfill the roles of Father Wolf) The People do not murder the People (Uratha don't murder other Uratha) The Low honor the High, the High respect the Low Respect your Prey The Uratha shall cleave to Human (Uratha are forbidden to mate with each other or with wolves and are mandated to reproduce) Do not eat the flesh of Human or wolf The herd must not know (the Uratha must be hidden from the humans) //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// In other words, they find that middle between the savage beast and human that they must wrestle with and find their own balance that allows them to fit in the grand scheme of things.

Ellodin

had to fight a lot of inertia to get things anywhere close to the way they are now, this type of culture wasn't a real movement before. maybe brought up in isolated cases, but not really defined or supported in a significant way. regardless, there is far more room for character development and nuance in activity instead of passivity, and total passivity is much, much easier to achieve. there are many different personalities that can have the same ideals or mission. you can be gilgamesh or enkidu, you can be cao cao or liu bei.

judging from responses here, even eleusis' outward appearance OOCly is a bit different from the balance of subcultures inside it. that's a fun statement on apparent activity.

Rangor

Having a place facilitate the "Philosophers" as well as the "Militants", is quite difficult but it can also be the places that are the most interesting. If there are no nuances, no disagreements, nothing to discuss or debate about, no differences of opinion, character or people. The place is can become rather stale and boring. I've been working for a looong time for Eleusis to be a place that facilitates militant people, as well as "pacifists". Getting both sides to see and accept that Nature(in this case), can require both types, is hard. That said, I think Eleusis is getting there.

Often one group wants to push out or exclude the other group though, and that's a bitch to deal with. Or everything devolves into pointless circle arguments over the same topics over and over and over again so the whole place and identity gets lost in the bickering and personal attacks. It really does require good Leadership to hold the reins (voted in by the citizens), and active Patrons that try to help out and lend their support when we need it. (world wide events).

Having said that I'll take this opportunity to thank  @gaia and @artemis for being awesome, @alrena for stepping up to take on speaker and the rest of the hierophants who's been working pretty hard to turn Eleusis around.

Kondar

Rangor said:

Often one group wants to push out or exclude the other group though, and that's a bitch to deal with. Or everything devolves into pointless circle arguments over the same topics over and over and over again so the whole place and identity gets lost in the bickering and personal attacks. It really does require good Leadership to hold the reins (voted in by the citizens), and active Patrons that try to help out and lend their support when we need it. (world wide events).

This is perfectly said. We can't expect everyone to be militant, and the moment we can reach an agreement with those that are militant, and those that are pacifists, then we can truly see what Eleusis can become. I've not been around that long, but I've seen the potential Eleusis has, I just hope we can keep improving.

Exelethril

1. Viridian form and become a mobile tree
2. Say nothing but "I am groot<insert name here>"
3. ????
4. Excellent RPz and profit.

On a more serious note, echoing what @Rangor said, the Renaissance was difficult because there were old pacifists that still wanted to play nice with cities, even when that sort of mindset conflicts with the Viridian Charter(ethos).

Nature is multi-faceted though, it would be nice if everyone could have their way while sticking to the ethos, instead of trying to misinterpret things for more peaceful ideals.

Ellodin

while there are occasional people who want a raw militant state, i think it's more common that people mistake a desire for meaningful activity (in terms of establishing and sustaining a direction) for a desire to be militant. there's also some difference in what people will call "militant."

think a lot of things in this thread so far are false dichotomies, but importantly, something should facilitate active existences instead of absolute passivity. passivity is not the same thing as pacifism, since you can still be a total pacifist while possessing and expressing strong ideals that oppose broad groups of people. frameworks are largely in place for people to pursue a wide variety of courses of action, but the most frustrating part has nothing to do with activity or passivity, how militant or how pacifist people are. it's when facts, history, and canon (within the context of the game) are ignored and denied entirely.

trying to reset the course of this thread, the link in the original post has some interesting thoughts and some things i'd disagree with in achaea's context. it can serve as a good piece of inspiration for people who are willing to play those characters. regardless of how individuals want to play, it is the more conflict-driven that tend to be world-shakers, for better or for worse. thanks for posting, lothien.