Class that kills in unusual ways

Marke

I've recently come back to the game, and want to try a new class aside from Sylvan.. I think. The thing I enjoyed most about sylvans was heartseed, and that feeling when your opponent messed up and was a deadman walking. However, a frustrating thing for me as a sylvan without a diadem was most setups were -easily- countered by the shield tattoo. Is there any other class that uses prepped insta kills this way? 

Kiet

I mean sylvan is better than ever, and heartseed is stronger than it's ever been. It's not fair to really blame the class there, diadem or not. People can avoid a heartseed, sure, but if you set it up right they're going to be punished for it very hard.

Infernal with vivisect is probably the most absurd setup insta, though, and except for times where fast enough breaking was unfeasible, has always been one of if not the strongest methods to take someone out. However, just like with sylvan, there are ways to 100% avoid a vivisect, the problem is they open you up to other things, just like avoiding a heartseed opens you up to other things.

The other setup instas are priest/apostate with cath, blademaster with brokenstar, and one of the alchemist ones. None of these are as strong as heartseed/vivi though, in that if you think heartseed is easily avoided you'll think that about those too. Except maybe brokenstar with a band, but I don't know BM that well.

Dalran

You're missing a lot of instant kills, like Magi Destroy, can count magi pummel, or sentinel pound (freeze pound?) Sentinel petrify, shaman tzantza, runie dsb, paladin damnation, jester jack in the box, monk scythe, monk 3x bbt. classless behead, also got the lock give voyria, occultist unravel. druid/sentinel incinerate. Uh, I'm probably missing some too, all I can really think of atm though.

EDIT: If you want just insta kills you have to prep towards pretty much take off jester jack in the box. Oh jesters/occie also have death tarot, which I guess is technically prepped also.

Kiet

Dalran said:

You're missing a lot of instant kills, like Magi Destroy, can count magi pummel, or sentinel pound (freeze pound?) Sentinel petrify, shaman tzantza, runie dsb, paladin damnation, jester jack in the box, monk scythe, monk 3x bbt. classless behead, also got the lock give voyria, occultist unravel. druid/sentinel incinerate. Uh, I'm probably missing some too, all I can really think of atm though.

EDIT: If you want just insta kills you have to prep towards pretty much take off jester jack in the box. Oh jesters/occie also have death tarot, which I guess is technically prepped also.

Yeah I didn't list any of the affliction ones + have no idea what magi do these days. I only really gave the ones that have unusual preps, since lock + voyria or petrify or unravel I think are pretty 'usual' in that they're just 'do affs well' and incinerate is just a damage setup. Of course that's a matter of opinion. Freeze pound does not count, it's not an insta, and neither is dsb except at very  high strengths though. Timed instas I figured he didn't want either.

Scythe definitely an interesting one, though.

Tharvis

magi pummel isn't exactly an instant kill though. Maybe with sensitivity, but I wouldn't throw it in the list of instant kills

serpent lightwall / darkshade is a pretty interesting one if you can keep them from noticing/curing for a few seconds

Thrindor

Kiet said:

I mean sylvan is better than ever, and heartseed is stronger than it's ever been. It's not fair to really blame the class there, diadem or not. People can avoid a heartseed, sure, but if you set it up right they're going to be punished for it very hard.

Infernal with vivisect is probably the most absurd setup insta, though, and except for times where fast enough breaking was unfeasible, has always been one of if not the strongest methods to take someone out. However, just like with sylvan, there are ways to 100% avoid a vivisect, the problem is they open you up to other things, just like avoiding a heartseed opens you up to other things.

The other setup instas are priest/apostate with cath, blademaster with brokenstar, and one of the alchemist ones. None of these are as strong as heartseed/vivi though, in that if you think heartseed is easily avoided you'll think that about those too. Except maybe brokenstar with a band, but I don't know BM that well.

Unless something has changed, the traditional Heartseed without diadem is avoided with a simple touch shield spam. Nothing complicated there, or really something that can be taken advantage of. Prepping another limb is possible, but at that point with parry you're looking at at least 20-25 thornrends, and still beatable. Let me know if any of this changed, but when I used to play Diadem was almost essential for heartseed unless you're fighting those who are ignorant of what it does.

Kiet

If you're not prepping limbs as a sylvan going for heartseed, I don't know what to tell you.

Thrindor

Kiet said:

If you're not prepping limbs as a sylvan going for heartseed, I don't know what to tell you.

Of course you prep limbs. But two limbs/torso simply does not work for the unartied

Kiet

Well, like Mizik pointed out in another thread, heartseed either kills them or serves as a third leg break. Since sylvans do absurd damage right now even without much in the way of arties, avoiding the heartseed sets you up for other opportunities.

Prepping more limbs isn't exactly difficult, either. The entire advantage of prep classes is they can take as long as they like. Also, even two prepped limbs is enough to avoid shield.

Atalkez

As a Blademaster, you can make it extremely difficult to avoid a Brokenstar without mana regen/sip/Robe type of arties, with some effort.

The biggest thing you have to learn (for BM, anyway) is how to control your room enough to not allow them to run before you can do what you need. Ie: breaking head/torso, getting balance to break legs before they run, etc

Marke

Hmm. In that case, which is best for combat and hunting? Should I stay with Sylvan or switch to dual blunt?

Tahquil

@Marke : Out of curiousity did you leave before changes to Sylvan? With the introduction of weather weaving Sylvan isn't as hard hampered with shield anymore.

Marke

Tahquil said:

@Marke : Out of curiousity did you leave before changes to Sylvan? With the introduction of weather weaving Sylvan isn't as hard hampered with shield anymore.

I did, but the timing on heartseed is pretty precise. If you don't thornrend their torso before the resto, they can cure out. Unless we have a way to break shield with thornrend?

Tahquil

Nope. You can combo a shear with other weatherweaving abilities. Sylvan has had a lot more kill paths opened up to them now with the changes. The biggest difference you'll find is now Sylvan can give two afflictions with every thornrend/synchronisity giving you a bit more wiggle room with strategies and timings.

Aerek

No proper Heartseed setup leaves the opponent standing at the relevant moments, so shielding isn't a problem if you do your prepwork. Thornrend breaks most people at 4, extremely tough targets at 5, so even if you're prepping 3 parts, you're looking at 9-12 rends at most, or 12-16 rends for 4 parts; don't know where 20-25 is coming from. And as has been said, anyone who knows how to avoid Heartseed leaves themselves vulnerable to damage options, as Thornrend and Lacerate do more damage to prone targets.

And when you don't want to mess with Heartseed, you can explode people with Weatherweaving. Sylvan is a fantastic class in my opinion. Perhaps not the best at high tiers, (Is artefacted Shockwave damage still stupid?) but for how simple and easy it is to learn and be lethal, easily one of the classes with the most bang for your buck. I actually have the Shield's combat instructors study Heartseed setups because they're a great case study for outside-the-box curing and understanding how to set up tactical if/then forks in a fight.

Kiet

I'd say Sylvan is very good at high tiers, considering the % of high tier Eleusis players currently playing it