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Why do credits cost so much?

Alcaro
Alcaro Member Posts: 153 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
edited October 2015 in North of Thera
Going by the prices found here, if I asked my parents to buy me 400 credits for Christmas, they'd ultimately spent like twelve hundred dollars. Correct me if my math is wrong, but that's really kind of ridiculous. I don't even want to think of how much the 1400 credits for an Auroran mace would cost.

Why do credits cost so much? I mean, I'm not poor or anything, but a twelve hundred dollar Christmas present is a bit steep. I'd feel bad even suggesting it.

I could understand if you tallied up employee wages, server costs and blahblahblah [Achaean employees? Is that a thing?], but I don't know anything about what it costs yearly for Achaea to exist, so I dunno. There's also a childish part of me that wants to scream and shout: it's not fair! But if I know anything, it's that life isn't fair and nothing worth having comes cheap.

On another note, I really like how the economy in the game is set up. It's realistic. And by that, I mean brutal and cutthroat. I learned Conjuration and was really excited about the idea of making reasonable gold .. until I spent 50k+ on commodities and realized that I'm going to have to tread a very, very fine line if I want to make more than I lose. Definitely like business in real life.

I've helped my mom with breeding and selling designer dog breeds [hypoallergenic crossbreeds like yorkipoos, shihpoos, pekipoos, etc.] for almost five years now and we usually sell our female puppies for $350 and our males for $300. Something like that, anyway. We've had a lot of people who come to us interested and leave after finding out the prices. They're shocked that we charge so much "just for a dog".

But what they don't know is that we've got a lot of money tied up in this business. After you tally up the price of vet bills, dog food, trips to the groomer, and so forth, you have to charge that kind of money or you won't make a profit. That's just how things are. It makes sense to me when I think of it like that.

I don't want to strip Achaea down to numbers and whatever, but behind the fun and immersion, it is a business, right? So .. why do the extra things like artefacts and credits cost so much?
(XXXX): Peak says, "You worry me."
Janna
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Comments

  • Antonius
    Antonius Member Posts: 5,040 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Your math is way off. 400 credits is 139.99. Look at the premium packages page.
    AlcaroAntidas
  • Kiet
    Kiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Isn't 400 credits 140, not 1200?
  • Krypton
    Krypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Click on "Premium Packages".

    400 credits is $140.

    The more in bulk you buy, the cheaper it is per credit. If you bought 1600cr in one go for a mace, it would be $442 (1500cr) + $40 (100cr).
  • Antonius
    Antonius Member Posts: 5,040 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Even if you take the absolute worst per credit price - 10 credits for 4.99 - that's 40 lots of that package at 4.99 each, so 199.60. Still not even close to 1200. 1200 would get you over 4000 credits.
  • Alcaro
    Alcaro Member Posts: 153 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Antonius said:
    Your math is way off. 400 credits is 139.99. Look at the premium packages page.
      yeah i had a feeling it was. but still, $140 is alot of money.
    (XXXX): Peak says, "You worry me."
  • Vacen
    Vacen Member Posts: 6 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    While the math seems in error, I must admit to the same reaction when I first looked at prices a week or two ago. The idea that non-cosmetic items in a game would cost hundreds of dollars is foreign in this world of Steam and League of Legends. 

    However, when I think about it, it makes sense. Achaea simply doesn't have the playerbase to support the amount of staff it seems to have working on it under a normal model. If the cost of playing this game for free is that some people get an advantage by being willing to support it, then that seems reasonable. Moreover, I've played for a couple weeks now and I've beaten people with artefacts. While I may be sad at the amount of money it would cost to try switching to Occultist, I am eminently satisfied with my ability to progress and learn in combat with just a $20 investment.
    TharvisJanna
  • Krypton
    Krypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If @Sarapisis in the market for a new pet, perhaps you can negotiate a 1000cr-for-pekipoo trade deal.
    AlcaroJanna
  • Sena
    Sena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    When you consider Iron Elite and the constant bonuses/sales, it's a bit better than just the package costs indicate.

    For example, the 400 credit package is $140, but if you wanted 400 credits you would really get 1 month of Iron Elite ($25) and the 300 credit package ($105), giving you a total cost of $130 for 430 credits (and 150 lessons per character). Or just 4 months of Elite, giving you 430 credits and 600 lessons per character for $100 if you don't mind waiting (and 4 months would also give a very nice experience bonus if you care about that).

    That's before the monthly promotions; right now, you'd get 15 giftbags and 3 humgii racing tickets with the 300 credit package, and I'm not sure what the chances are of the different giftbag prizes but you can generally estimate most promotions (that can be converted to credit value) to be at least a 15-30% bonus on average if you sell/tradein whatever you get (if you don't want to keep it). With some promotions, the bonus can be worth more than your actual credit purchase if you're lucky.
    Aereidhna
  • Kiet
    Kiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2015
    Sarapis said:
    Vacen said:
    However, when I think about it, it makes sense. Achaea simply doesn't have the playerbase to support the amount of staff it seems to have working on it under a normal model.
    Normal model, pssh. I invented f2p w/ virtual goods sales. This is the original implementation of that business model!

    If only I'd have thought to patent it, we could run the Iron Realms games for free as the income from them would be irrelevant next to the income from the patent. Oh well. Business process patents are bullshit anyway.

    You are correct though as to why we have to be pricey. Our admin+developer to staff ratio is sooo much higher than in anything mainstream like League of Legends. We have no economy of scale, basically.

    I always figured IRE got kind of screwed with no one giving them credit as pioneers of F2P simply from being smaller than the korean f2p games that came later.

    Sena said:
    When you consider Iron Elite and the constant bonuses/sales, it's a bit better than just the package costs indicate.

    For example, the 400 credit package is $140, but if you wanted 400 credits you would really get 1 month of Iron Elite ($25) and the 300 credit package ($105), giving you a total cost of $130 for 430 credits (and 150 lessons per character). Or just 4 months of Elite, giving you 430 credits and 600 lessons per character for $100 if you don't mind waiting (and 4 months would also give a very nice experience bonus if you care about that).

    That's before the monthly promotions; right now, you'd get 15 giftbags and 3 humgii racing tickets with the 300 credit package, and I'm not sure what the chances are of the different giftbag prizes but you can generally estimate most promotions (that can be converted to credit value) to be at least a 15-30% bonus on average if you sell/tradein whatever you get (if you don't want to keep it). With some promotions, the bonus can be worth more than your actual credit purchase if you're lucky.
    Iron Elite and the lesson package have made the costs for most things a lot more reasonable, yeah. Getting your character tri-transed at the least is pretty realistic with just 50 bucks and some time.


  • Alcaro
    Alcaro Member Posts: 153 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Krypton said:
    If @Sarapisis in the market for a new pet, perhaps you can negotiate a 1000cr-for-pekipoo trade deal.
       .. this is so brilliant I choked on my soda.

      @Sarapis .. ? We do have some pups on the way, coincidentally ..
    (XXXX): Peak says, "You worry me."
    Anaidiana
  • Trey
    Trey Member Posts: 4,890 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    In an odd juxtaposition, the Chinese State outlawed the practice of buying real-world goods with virtual currency in 2009,[14] something that had become popular in some parts of the country.[15]

    I'm a bona fide criminal in China!

  • Kiet
    Kiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Kiet said:
    I always figured IRE got kind of screwed with no one giving them credit as pioneers of F2P simply from being smaller than the korean f2p games that came later.

    Nah, I never felt screwed that way. Players may not know generally but the industry does, or did when anyone cared and the model hadn't become the defacto model for so many games. Got invited to speak all over the world, served as expert witness in a couple different court cases, got to have the title of 'Senior Consultant to the Secretary-General' of a UN conference, have ran many, many roundtables on the model at Game Developer's Conference (one of the few I ever go to), and would have never been able to raise the ~$8m I did for Sparkplay without the reputation of having pioneered the model. 

    These days the only people who remember, most likely, besides our players, are the industry folks who were around in the early days of MMOs (late 90s, early 2000s), and Wikipedia, which is fine. 18 years ago is forever in internet terms. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_goods

    It has the wrong date (was late '97 when we first sold virtual goods) but close enough.

    (Also, should note that I'm all-but-positive that the Koreans didn't copy us. They independently came up with the model as far as me and Jake Song, who was one of the very early Korean MMO guys, can tell. We wouldn't have been on their radar.)
    Wow, that's cool to hear about, then.

    I would've assumed the Korean MMO makers came up with it independently, too, yeah. Achaea still beat them time-wise.
  • Sarapis
    Sarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,409 Achaean staff
    Trey said:
    In an odd juxtaposition, the Chinese State outlawed the practice of buying real-world goods with virtual currency in 2009,[14] something that had become popular in some parts of the country.[15]

    I'm a bona fide criminal in China!
    Yep, Tencent's QQ coins had become very popular, and people were using it as a defacto real currency.

    China's a pain in the ass to run a game in. You can't show things like zombies or skeletons. You can't have game themes that contradict their official pro-China view of history. They have various regulations about how you can sell virtual goods in games, and so on.
  • Gamden
    Gamden Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Sarapis Looks the Chairman is ruling that household 

    Yae
  • Kayeil
    Kayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    For some reason a lot of people don't like chihuahuas, but you really don't know how awesome they are until you have one. I miss mine. Chairman Mao is super adorable, though.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    AereidhnaJeslynGamdenJhaeli
  • Sarapis
    Sarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,409 Achaean staff
    Kayeil said:
    For some reason a lot of people don't like chihuahuas, but you really don't know how awesome they are until you have one. I miss mine. Chairman Mao is super adorable, though.
    Well, they can be pretty willful and aggressive. He bit me and drew blood the first time I tried to pick him up at the shelter. That's when I knew he was the little guy for me. He's got spirit! He's so willful though that every time the rains start for the winter, he decides it's time to start peeing inside again, since he hates getting wet. Quite frustrating.
    Jeslyn
  • Kayeil
    Kayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Kayeil said:
    For some reason a lot of people don't like chihuahuas, but you really don't know how awesome they are until you have one. I miss mine. Chairman Mao is super adorable, though.
    Well, they can be pretty willful and aggressive. He bit me and drew blood the first time I tried to pick him up at the shelter. That's when I knew he was the little guy for me. He's got spirit! He's so willful though that every time the rains start for the winter, he decides it's time to start peeing inside again, since he hates getting wet. Quite frustrating.
    Oh yeah, my aunt's chihuahua bit me the first time I met him, but now he's a love bug. My aunt's chihuahua and the one I had would have accidents in the house too, but for different reasons. Seems to be common throughout the breed, or at least from what I notice with shelter and rescue chihuahuas. The one I had, we rescued her from a situation as just a teeny tiny puppy, they took her away from her mom too young and the litter was really ill. The litter after her all died. So she was never aggressive with me, but as she grew up she barked at all people that weren't me. They're so picky with their humans.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    SarapisGamden
  • Trevize
    Trevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Alcaro said:
    I've helped my mom with breeding and selling designer dog breeds [hypoallergenic crossbreeds like yorkipoos, shihpoos, pekipoos, etc.] for almost five years now and we usually sell our female puppies for $350 and our males for $300. Something like that, anyway. We've had a lot of people who come to us interested and leave after finding out the prices. They're shocked that we charge so much "just for a dog".
    ?

    Hm, we raised and sold australian shepherds for $1k+, 300-350 for a 'designer dog breed' sounds crazy cheap to me.
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  • Alcaro
    Alcaro Member Posts: 153 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Trevize said:
    Hm, we raised and sold australian shepherds for $1k+, 300-350 for a 'designer dog breed' sounds crazy cheap to me.
      we live in a small town. no one here will pay a thousand dollars for a dog xD if we lived somewhere like nashville, we could make those kinda bucks, but not here.
    (XXXX): Peak says, "You worry me."
    TrevizeTrilliana
  • Deladan
    Deladan Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Sarapis said:
    You wouldn't think a 7 pound dog could rule anything, but he does and he knows it.
    This so much. You ever seen a pitbull run in terror... I have... from a chihuahua... real stuff here. 

    SarapisTrilliana
  • Kayeil
    Kayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Deladan said:
    Sarapis said:
    You wouldn't think a 7 pound dog could rule anything, but he does and he knows it.
    This so much. You ever seen a pitbull run in terror... I have... from a chihuahua... real stuff here. 
    I could totally see that. My chi was never scared of any dogs, not even ones way bigger than her. She'd become the boss and if they messed with her too much she'd try and beat 'em up by attacking their ears and tail.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    Sarapis
  • Kayeil
    Kayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I had that as a caption from the Zoolander movie on a photo of my chi I had. haha.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    Sarapis
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