Please help me decide. (Jester or Apostate)

Esael

I find myself unable to decide between these too classes. I am an atavian. 

Could you all please explain perhaps some of the intricacies and deeper decisions of these classes. I have no points spent in them, and I want to keep it that way until I decide. 

So any explanation of the classes would be nice. 

For jester, I was thinking primarily using tarot with the jester skills and flying used to get in and out of places quickly. 

For apostate, hovering around, using summoned daggers to tears things to pieces.

I am not sure what exactly I want to do, but pking for the sake of a yet undecided faction does sound nice, or perhaps some politics. 

Peak

Join Mhaldor, go Apostate. Never turn back.

Jonathin

First, two classes, not too classes.

Second, class choice kind of goes beyond what skills are cool. You have to decide how you want to play your character as well. Apostates are, simply put, Evil. Should you choose to be an Apostate, you would be firmly glued to Mhaldor. Even if you join Ashtan or Hashan, you'd still risk losing your necromancy essence stuff if you don't do what Mhaldor wants.

Being an Apostate would automatically put you on Shallam's shit-list, even though that's not really a big deal, because Shallam hates everyone* anyways.

Jesters are more neutral and you can choose who to align yourself with, although if you go that route, please for the love of God do not be the stupidly obnoxious type.

Politics is class-neutral within cities granted you're a class that the city accepts.

Other than that though, I don't have anything to contribute PK-wise because there are definitely more qualified people to talk about those.

Zeon

Pretty sure Ashtan can have apostates now? You can have your necromancy and eat it too! (or something along those lines)

Jester is about as restrictive as apostate these days. How many self respecting Houses allow them again?

Maht

Zeon said:

Pretty sure Ashtan can have apostates now? You can have your necromancy and eat it too! (or something along those lines)

Jester is about as restrictive as apostate these days. How many self respecting Houses allow them again?

Both are allowed in Congregation, so there is only one true option! Shadowsnakes may be decent, but are of course largely/entirely Serpents. I don't know enough to comment on the status of the Crownmerchants, Cij, or Tybeirdd but they may be to Esael's liking.

Eld

Basically, what @Mosr said. If you want to be a priest of the Lords of Evil, go apostate. If you want to be a carefree joker, go jester. If you're solely asking about combat viability with no consideration of the roleplaying aspect...please don't. But if you must, I hear apostate's better for combat (based on comments from @Tanris and probably a couple others).

Xith

As for both, I have to say pick the one you find coolest. I've always been attracted to Apostate for the demons and evileye, but you sort of have to ride on Mhaldor's back there or you won't do well. So I haven't done it.

Combat-wise, both are 1v1 classes, both useful in raids in very narrow capacities (beckon/fury or bombs/tarot).
If you understand afflictions and locking already, Apostate is a safe bet, but you'll want to get a decent auto-offense set up to have any hope. I've heard some consider it a broken class, but it's still a really cool one, and rare.

Jester is my class. Also really rare, partly due to lots of broken things functionally, the expense, and the fact that fashion-fashion-fashion-fashion-fashion-SLOWLOCK gets boring and most people don't want to innovate enough to find ways around it, most of which require luck and timing anyway.

For roleplay and reliable combat, probably pick Apostate.
For utility, innovation, and a lot of fun, you can't beat Jester.

Tanris

Apostate is extremely powerful one v one (has an answer to most situations). Its somewhat hard as a beginner class since you need to react to the person's curing pretty quickly, but you'll learn a lot as one as well. Its one of the best raid/group combat classes, and has the nice benefit of being pretty tanky. It is tied to Mhaldor: playing an Ashtani apostate (and I suspect a Hashani one) is an enormous headache and usually still will end up in an anathema, so its best to assume its not viable.

Jester is pretty trick based for most people (although the standard concussion slowlock is fairly straight forward). Its also not a class I'd ever recommend just because your defence does have to be pretty good to do well as one (jester has no damage mitigation if they can't dodge, which means you have to actively hinder and such). That's an extra thing to worry about for a beginner, and coupled with jesters lack of clearly defined kill conditions a person starting out would probably get frustrated quickly with the combat. Jester can join anyone is its only plus over apostate, I would say.

Mishgul

An auto offense as an apostate is the worst idea, why would anyone suggest that. A good apostate needs to be as fluid and dynamic as possible.

Esael

Ok, thanks to you all. 

One final question, are tarot cards a viable offensive choice? I notice the death card and the one that summons a meteor, alongside the charm cards. How exactly does tarot work in combat/in the world and where would I find find blank cards? 

Also, the puppetry of the jester, the third skill. What are the range limitations and how long does it take to make a puppet? 

Lastly, does one absolutely have to roleplay a jester as a joker wannabe? Can serious jesters exist? 

Antonius

Tarot cards will form part of your offense, but I'm not sure how far you'd get if you only used them. There's a whole range of both offensive and defensive tarot cards, as well as some utility/escape ones too, but you'll need to combine them with your other skills in order to really be effective.

As far as roleplay, there's an inherent amount of silliness in some of the abilities (primarily those in the Pranks skill), but I don't see why you couldn't at least attempt to roleplay a somewhat serious jester - part of that roleplay may be not using those abilities though.

Sylvance

Antonius said:

Tarot cards will form part of your offense, but I'm not sure how far you'd get if you only used them. There's a whole range of both offensive and defensive tarot cards, as well as some utility/escape ones too, but you'll need to combine them with your other skills in order to really be effective.

As far as roleplay, there's an inherent amount of silliness in some of the abilities (primarily those in the Pranks skill), but I don't see why you couldn't at least attempt to roleplay a somewhat serious jester - part of that roleplay may be not using those abilities though.

Shagwell ftw

Esael

Ok, thanks for all the responses. I am going to go with jester. It seems slightly more fun to role-play, and the idea of a tricky acrobatic spellcaster appeals to me. 

Also, are there be any weapon proficiencies I should pick up? 

Sohl

Handaxe, for delivering venoms via juggling.

Xith

Although daggers are slightly faster and more stylish. Plus you can use them to deliver a quick single venom with a jab, which I'm not sure is possible with handaxes.

Sena

Xith said:

Although daggers are slightly faster and more stylish. Plus you can use them to deliver a quick single venom with a jab, which I'm not sure is possible with handaxes.

Daggers are a bit faster and a lot cheaper, but handaxes are far more accurate. You can slash with handaxes (but I'm not sure why it matters, since throw is the same speed as melee weapon attacks and bypasses rebounding).

Mishgul

throw is faster than melee attacks iirc

Sena

Oh, I forgot about the Knife Thrower trait. The base balance is the same, but with that throwing is faster.

Xith

Sena said:

Xith said:

Although daggers are slightly faster and more stylish. Plus you can use them to deliver a quick single venom with a jab, which I'm not sure is possible with handaxes.

Daggers are a bit faster and a lot cheaper, but handaxes are far more accurate. You can slash with handaxes (but I'm not sure why it matters, since throw is the same speed as melee weapon attacks and bypasses rebounding).

The rare instance when you want to jab instead of using 1.0s to juggle and then throw. Plus jab is 99% accurate. But in general it doesn't matter which. However when I get daggers forged I only keep the ones with 174+ to-hit and they serve me against all but the most dodgy, which you don't see much of anyway.

Sultani

Apostate if you can cut it in Mhaldor. Style and mad skill. I'd love to be one if I had the time and dedication.

Cahin

Hmmmm... atavian you say. That's a tough one.