newbie help

Sidasu

I'm pondering trying out a new class. I should be able to tri-trans upon my selection but I am unsure which one I should pick. Sentinel, Runewarden, Occultist and Magi are the few classes that have peaked my interests once I returned to the game. I was wondering if anyone could share some insight on these classes. i.e. how they hunt, how is PvP with each class, how much of a learning curve they have, and how much do you have to invest into the class with artefacts.

I hear Occultist relies a lot on rng and pretty decent coding but they are extremely deadly when things click. Squishy and I have no idea how they stand in Ashtan now that the new houses were made.

Knight classes seem to be full of min-maxing to be effective but I hear they are decent hunters. Have four specs to choose from but dual-cutting and SnB seem to outshine all the rest.

Magi switched to salve pressure and I believe they still have the damage potential but they aren't the raging powerhouses they once were with full arties. No idea how they hunt.

As for Sentinel, I really have no clue. The only forestal class I remember fighting was Sylvan and they were a big pain. Dealing with both damage pressure and heartseed was a crucial.

Cynlael

Occultist, you kind of hit the nail on the head. Getting things to click isn't quite as simple as it might seem, as seen in the other thread they capitalise pretty easily on people who have bad curing, or focus otherwise on progressing their own offence over all else. They aren't -that- squishy, but they can go pop vs certain classes. Probably the most mobile of the four, with hermit/universe/pathfinder/astralform. Magician/Priestess/Fool is strong survivability as well. (Uses quick-witted)

Knight doesn't really have min-maxing anymore, now that weapons are standardised. Largely, it all depends on what spec you go, but they're all viable with proper understanding of the class. They're probably the best hunters out of the four, followed fairly closely by Sentinel. (Uses nimble)

Magi are okay hunters, not super fantastic, but not horrible. I hear the class is pretty irritating to get the hang of, if you want to go the salve route, but it seems to be able to take advantage of bad curing priorities just as well as Occultist does. They're pretty powerful defensively. (I hear the salve route works best with nimble, but I haven't looked a great deal into it, need @Tharvis or @Aegoth here)

Sentinel is still pretty absurd. Passive confusion is strong, considering it's always combo'd with impatience + whatever third affliction (usually paralysis/prefarar). They can also simultaneously push 2-3 different kill routes all at once, with proper setup. Mobility is good with leap/fly, chasing (and escaping) is good with traps. With proper setup of them, the only classes which should reliably be able to get away from you, are ones with evade. Traps, leap and nightingale prismatic make for pretty solid defensive play as well. (Uses nimble)

Sidasu

Being able to push 2-3 kill routes all at once does seem really appealing given that my offense is setup right. How well do Sentinels hunt and is there any artefacts i'll need?

Knowing that Knights aren't all about min-maxing anymore is a big relief to hear. Two-hander and dual cutting seem rather neat. Best hunters is a plus too!

How hard is it to code for these offenses? I'd think knight would be the easiest, however both Sentinel and Occultist(occie even more so due to balances) seem rather difficult. Granted, this isn't a deal breaker.

Cynlael

Hunting:
Dual cutting knights burn through endurance pretty quickly, if you hunt for any sort of 'decent' length of time, if you're not at least virtuoso or so Fitness.

Two hander is a little less so, but still noticeable. Dual blunt, I'm not sure. SnB uses basically none, I regen more than I use with only 30 lessons in fitness.

Sentinel uses a decent amount, but it's really good hunting, especially being able to fly / dash to get between places quicker.

Occultist, your will power gets destroyed without a few hundred lessons in philosophy.

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Coding:

Dual blunt / 2 hander would be the easiest. Dual cutting / snb both requires a bit of coding (outside of limb counters, which you can get for free on the forums anyway, just look for Kenway's signature. svof has a pretty solid one built into it, as well)
 -Talk to.. Basically any decent knight combatant for help, if necessary. Aerek, Kenway, Mizik immediately comes to mind.

Sentinel realistically only needs a limb counter. You can get away with highlights for the rest, most of your coding will likely be defensive measures, or lock down precautions for trap placement and the like.
 -Maybe try hit @Rom up for some help here, if you're Eleusian.

Occultist definitely the hardest to code for. Way too much RNG, especially for someone who's new to Achaea combat.
 -@Jinsun might help you here, if you ask nicely.

Tharvis

get nimble if you have an aldar talisman. If you don't have an aldar talisman, get quick witted for the hunting (basically nimble + aldar for the roughly equal balance/eq times)

Magi is still very good at applying heavy damage - with the exception if your target just prioritises curing ablaze over everything else when dehydrated. (Conflagration requires dehydration + 2 ablaze but applies heavy damage, and then the same damage again 1.5s later - if you can pull off three in a row, odds are they'll be below 25% hp, where you can choose to conflag them again to kill them or bypass their starburst with Destroy. Note that this is against people that don't know what they're doing, against others you'll have to play with weapons like scimitars and envenom them with Selarnia to give a 50% chance for them to cure either ablaze or selarnia)

as for a magi's defense.. aerial(shoots you into the sky), reflection(absorbs a hit and any effects that hit may have had) and bloodboil(cures an affliction - stopped by haemophilia). (don't be mounted for aerial)

been a while since I've fought outside dragon, so my memory on bloodboil is a bit fuzzy, may be two, may be three afflictions

Sidasu

I appreciate all the listed information so far. Would love to hear from @Jinsun and @Rom on Occultists and Sentinels respectfully, as well as any others who would like to share.

Alcaro

Why not Apostate?

Jinsun

@Sidasu sorry I wasn't super helpful the other day. I would love to help with coding occie because it would mostly mean that I could code it! Here's the thing, I think @Calabolg was very wrong in the other thread talking about how easy it is to automate. It is actually much more difficult than the standard class because of the affliction  rng. This is part of the reason AK doesn't track it and only two occies to my knowledge have legit automation in their scripts, and they are godlike coders. I had some tables for awhile, but they were wildly inaccurate. The problem really is a mixture of that the affs are rng and the balances are separate. You have to alternate them, or you'll lose speed. However, bloodleech might land a split second before you've queued instill dark shade. Now you've wasted a balance. Compared to say serpent where you're intentionally giving two specific affs on one balance, and it is just hell to script for. About 6 months ago, I scrapped my entire offense and went back to an alias for everything. That way I could teach myself to watch and adapt. I'm not perfect but I do feel like I'm probably at my best so far.  occultist is very easy in practice and verrrrryyy difficult against good opponents. Saladbowl was a pretty shite occie as best o remember.

occie hunting: a lot of people complain about how hard it is. It's the first time I got dragon. The low health can be a pain, but it really wasn't that bad to me. I rather enjoyed the challenge, and I hate hunting. 

for raids, occie is hands down one of the best classes. It's mobility and utility with doppie is nearly stupid.

im sorry I'm not much help on coding but I'm always willing to talk strats. I know people thought I was a dick for not just teaching everyone but I was not going to violate Jins oaths. Now that house and some of its blowhards are not even blips on Jins radar and I'm happy to help ashtani

Cynlael

Mhaldor's not for everyone, would be my guess as to 'why not apostate?'

To be honest, I don't think Occultist is 'hard' to code for, moreso utterly annoying, because of what you just said regarding different balance times on ent/eq... I'd much prefer if it were just like Sentinel personally, where you could command/attack every bal. But that 'might' be a bit too strong, I don't know.

Hunting, Occultist isn't honestly that bad. It's just slow, for the most part. Squishyness mostly goes away (for hunting) around level 85 or so, and after that priestess will save you any time you really need it to... Sentinel/Knight are still a lot better, though. Not sure how Magi fares these days.