Serpent vs. Prep Class: Riding or Dex Boots?

Bronislav

I've been slowly tinkering on Serpent combat (and, to a lesser degree, Dragon combat - but that's something for later), and I've noticed that I've been getting a bit of trouble from prep-classes. I keep weaving up, I stick Xentio, and I'm working on knowing when to pre-apply Restoration (seems like I should make a key for it, and know when to start pre-applying!). I have 15 Dexterity and Thoth's fang. However, I've been looking into improving my ability to dodge attacks. I've one of two options: I could get Level 2 Dex boots, or I could get an artefact pet with artefact spurs.

I've been trying to weigh the benefits of each, and while the optimal route would be, "BOTH!", I don't have 4000-5000cr just sitting in my character's account. Here's what I have so far:

Boots:
Faster hunting speed.
Maybe faster flay/backstab/phase? (dstabs can't be faster a la Thoth's fang). @Sena, please fact-check my ass.

Mount/Spurs:
Reporting - no more surprise visits in Underworld/Annwyn!
Jousting becomes a fun to-do option.
The pet-people interactions will be absolutely hilarious/fun/epic.
All of the many and varied benefits that riding an artefact pet have. Like...Um...Hmm..

So, the question is, am I missing anything? Which is the better option against prep-classes? Thanks in advance!

Aegoth

Dex boots allow you to spec con and be tankier

Sena

If you care more about dodging than the rest of the pet/RP stuff, non-pet mounts will generally give a better chance to dodge (the equivalent of another 3-4 dex) because pets usually have very low levels. You won't have the immortality, which is a big deal, but for the cost of a package pet you could afford 5 collared or 50-ish uncollared legend steeds so you can always have backups.

As far as I know, dexterity only affects the channel time of backstab and not the balance recovery, and only slightly speeds up flay, so it's not a big deal most of the time for those abilities. I don't remember how much it speeds up phasing, but that should be useful at least.

Assuming you stay mounted, a good mount will always be better for dodging than dex boots. Unless you have the limbcrusher trait with weaving on; then a high level mount would be between L2 and L3 boots in effectiveness, while a low level mount could actually reduce your dodge chance.

I don't know which is actually better, after taking into account the possibility of being dismounted and the inability to evade and such without dismounting.

Naverre

Dex also boosts the speed at which phase completes. With 17 phase, you phase before you get back equilibrium, at 16 it's just after.

Suladan

As far as evading goes with arte pet you can summon to inv with no balance cost - that's basically a free dismount, so evade alias can check if mounted and if so do that first. Perk of arte pet only though. Also - a lot of arte pets are legendary steeds. Depends on what creature you create. 

Dairon

Also, I'm not sure if anyone posted this but you can evade off a mount and call it in without having to dismount

Ahmet

Suladan said:

As far as evading goes with arte pet you can summon to inv with no balance cost - that's basically a free dismount, so evade alias can check if mounted and if so do that first. Perk of arte pet only though. Also - a lot of arte pets are legendary steeds. Depends on what creature you create. 

Yes but even if they're legend steeds they can still have lower levels than say... a mount you bought from the bazaar or one you bought on zanzi.

Rangor

I enjoy bracers of frost and frozen ground + pinshot against prep classes. Makes it much harder for People to escape when i snap.

Bronislav

..WHAT THE HELL, RANGOR.

I PRESENT TWO OPTIONS AND YOU JUST COME IN LIKE THE KOOL-AID MAN WITH AN OPTION I HADN'T EVEN CONSIDERED.

AND JESUS CHRIST IN A PITA, IT TEMPTS ME.

Rangor

Bronislav said:

..WHAT THE HELL, RANGOR.

I PRESENT TWO OPTIONS AND YOU JUST COME IN LIKE THE KOOL-AID MAN WITH AN OPTION I HADN'T EVEN CONSIDERED.

AND JESUS CHRIST IN A PITA, IT TEMPTS ME.

I know right. But keep in mind dex boots boosts your hunting by a lot. Lvl 3 lash makes you the hunting God of Cyrene as well.

Seftin

To be honest, it sounds less like a problem with lack of dex and more like you're not utilising your skills like evade so much - v prep classes I never use to stay in room during hypno prep, I'd hypno/evade over wall, evade back in suggest/ seal, evade out etc if I had to, keeping an eye on what limbs they are hitting.

My advice personally would be go for the bracers, its always fun and gives you unlimited icefall (as rangor said). Use evade like a mofo versus them prep classes then just bust in and lock them in 4 hits. You should be able to essentially nullify their prep during your hypno period with evade/parry/shield and then destroy them in the space of 1 to 2 rebounding (much quicker than they can prep you)

Antonius

Bracers of Frost will be great until you find yourself in a freeze ground - firelash ground war with somebody who has Bracers of Flame; I guess if you're willing to gamble that they'll get bored first (and not simply leave the fight when they do) then it might be okay. Against people who don't know or forget that's a thing, or who have a regular firelash enchantment you can just outlast, it will be effective.

Atalkez

Why would you care about hunting in lesser as a Dragon?

Sena

Serpent has far better PvE offence than dragon. Fully artied dragon DPS is about 311, and balance is 3s. Serpent with L3 lash and 19 dex is 445 DPS, balance is 1.3 seconds. Even with 15 dex, serpent with L3 lash is stronger than dragon.

Atalkez

Sena said:

Serpent has far better PvE offence than dragon. Fully artied dragon DPS is about 311, and balance is 3s. Serpent with L3 lash and 19 dex is 445 DPS, balance is 1.3 seconds. Even with 15 dex, serpent with L3 lash is stronger than dragon.

Sure but does anything beat Dragon pure tankiness?

How does scales/scalemail compare to Dragonarmour?

Ahmet

Atalkez said:

Sena said:

Serpent has far better PvE offence than dragon. Fully artied dragon DPS is about 311, and balance is 3s. Serpent with L3 lash and 19 dex is 445 DPS, balance is 1.3 seconds. Even with 15 dex, serpent with L3 lash is stronger than dragon.

Sure but does anything beat Dragon pure tankiness?

How does scales/scalemail compare to Dragonarmour?

Not to mention the (minimum of a) +5 con boost.

Sena

Serpent doesn't come close in tankiness*, but 43% higher DPS is plenty of reason to care about lesserform hunting.

*I don't know the specifics of dragonarmour or dragon racial resistances, and I never finished working out how armour works against denizens, so I can't give a detailed comparison.

Austere

Atalkez said:

Sena said:

Serpent has far better PvE offence than dragon. Fully artied dragon DPS is about 311, and balance is 3s. Serpent with L3 lash and 19 dex is 445 DPS, balance is 1.3 seconds. Even with 15 dex, serpent with L3 lash is stronger than dragon.

Sure but does anything beat Dragon pure tankiness?

How does scales/scalemail compare to Dragonarmour?

Artied dragon hunting is almost the most boring thing you can do in game.  I hunt lesser with 11 str sometimes just to feel a little danger. 

Atalkez

I guess coming from BM bashing, Dragon is like godmode right now.

Dairon

Only downside is that I run out of endurance pretty quickly when hunting solo. I think I can do a quick 15% in an hour, but that will leave me with less than 6k endurance left

Trevize

Atalkez said:

I guess coming from BM bashing, Dragon is like godmode right now.

If my calculations are correct, at level 115 with L3 bracelets and an L3 belt, I'll have 10k health. (with Jera)

Ainly

Atalkez said:

I guess coming from BM bashing, Dragon is like godmode right now.

Ya man some classes are way better at hunting than dragon.  Dragon is tanky ya, but slow.

Atalkez

Trevize said:

Atalkez said:

I guess coming from BM bashing, Dragon is like godmode right now.

If my calculations are correct, at level 115 with L3 bracelets and an L3 belt, I'll have 10k health. (with Jera)

I'm assuming you mean Dragon, or lesser?

Ainly said:

Atalkez said:

I guess coming from BM bashing, Dragon is like godmode right now.

Ya man some classes are way better at hunting than dragon.  Dragon is tanky ya, but slow.

Yeah, Blademaster is definitely not one of them. The endurance drain is so so bad, not to mention drawslash does half the damage of gut, if that.

Trevize

Atalkez said:

Trevize said:

Atalkez said:

I guess coming from BM bashing, Dragon is like godmode right now.

If my calculations are correct, at level 115 with L3 bracelets and an L3 belt, I'll have 10k health. (with Jera)

I'm assuming you mean Dragon, or lesser?

Yes, Dragon. Level 115, 24 con, L3 bracelet.

(300+100*(3*24+4)+15*(3*24-16))*(1.15) = 10051

Atalkez

Trevize said:

Atalkez said:

Trevize said:

Atalkez said:

I guess coming from BM bashing, Dragon is like godmode right now.

If my calculations are correct, at level 115 with L3 bracelets and an L3 belt, I'll have 10k health. (with Jera)

I'm assuming you mean Dragon, or lesser?

Yes, Dragon. Level 115, 24 con, L3 bracelet.

(300+100*(3*24+4)+15*(3*24-16))*(1.15) = 10051

So if I wanted to figure out what I would have with a level 1 belt and level 2 bracelets?

Sena

(3*Con+4)*Level+300, then if above level 100 subtract (Level-100)*20 from that, then multiply by your bracelet modifier (and if you have any other percentage health modifiers, like Hermes' blessing, they stack multiplicatively).

So with L1 belt and L2 bracelet in dragon, at 115 you'd have 8475 health (8855 with jera), and you'd hit 10k at level 145 (136 with jera).

Trevize

Atalkez said:

Trevize said:

Atalkez said:

Trevize said:

Atalkez said:

I guess coming from BM bashing, Dragon is like godmode right now.

If my calculations are correct, at level 115 with L3 bracelets and an L3 belt, I'll have 10k health. (with Jera)

I'm assuming you mean Dragon, or lesser?

Yes, Dragon. Level 115, 24 con, L3 bracelet.

(300+100*(3*24+4)+15*(3*24-16))*(1.15) = 10051

So if I wanted to figure out what I would have with a level 1 belt and level 2 bracelets?

What level?

Formula is (300+level*(3*con+4)+olevel*(3*con-16))*(1+bracelet*0.05)

level is 1-100, olevel is levels over 100

So with level 1 belt, no jera, that's be 21 con.

Aussming you mean level 115 that'd be:
(300+100*(3*21+4)+15*(3*21-16))*(1+2*0.05) = (300+6700+705)*1.1 = 8475.5

Health is truncated, not rounded, so you'd have 8475 health.