Vodun Throttle INT based?

Dochitha

Is Vodun Throttle INT based? Does a Collar increase it's damage?

Aktillum

Yes and yes, last time I was Jester (about a year ago), but it doesn't scale very well with artefacts. You're not going to get 2k throttles with a lvl 3 collar+sash.

Edit: Int+collar do also effect Star tarot, so theoretically you could do some pretty good burst damage with star + throttle if you had sash + collar, but Jester doesn't really rely on damage for kills, so you'd be throwing credits at something you won't really be using much.

Aktillum

Okay, just did testing for you.

11 intelligence Throttle = 913 damage
13 intelligence + level 2 Collar = 1176

I believe Throttle is asphyxiation damage, which is unblockable type (except by HOLD BREATH), so no way to mitigate against it with resistances.

I'll have to find a Grook Jester with 18 int and see if they're doing 40% throttles. That would be hysterical. I'm nearly certain it hits diminishing returns somewhat hard though.

I do remember complaining about Throttle damage when I was Jester with sash+collar, and classleading that it should be comparable to Kai Choke damage when you're artied, and them saying they would look into it. So they might've made it scale better with artefacts since then.

Paging @Makarios if he cares to comment here.

Comitis

Pupptry Throttle.

no collar/no sash - 24.6%

lvl 1 collar/no sash - 26.5%

lvl 3 sash/no collar - 27.8%

Which means
Level 1 Sash - 1.06% - 500 Credits.
Level 1 Collar - 1.9% - 400 Credits.
^ If you're torn between which to get.

Aktillum

@Dochitha

Based on the numbers I quoted and Sena's post above mine, I definitely would not get sash+collar for Throttle alone. Were you Jester, I might recommend them for Star tarot and enjoying the increased throttle damage as a byproduct, and maybe find ways to combine them, but since you're a Shaman, you don't have Star Tarot. There's certainly far better artes for you to buy for your class. I'd focus on sip+con artes, a shield of absorbtion, maybe a lyre.

Down the road, pick up sash+collar for the increased mana and bashing damage (I think collar effects bleed curse dmg, @Sena will have to correct me if its even worth it), but not before you focus on tanking artes first.

Amranu

What percent was that? Mine at 13 int seem to be a bit above 20% on average

Aktillum

@Amranu My max health is 4600 so 13 Int + lvl 2 collar did 25% (1176)

If I'm wrong and 18 Int + lvl 3 collar can do like 50% throttles, everyone is playing Shaman/Jester wrong because you could kill like 90% of the population with a couple stars/meteors and 2 throttles, area-wide. The lulz potential is incredible, so this deserves more investigation.

Merador

I thought it was basically just a kai choke clone with similar scaling off int/collar.

Aktillum

Merador said:

I thought it was basically just a kai choke clone with similar scaling off int/collar.

Similar, but not as high. I remember my classlead that Throttle should do as much as artied Choke, and the response was "Perhaps not as high as choke, but we'll tweak it". This was about a year ago though.

I think their reason for it not scaling as high as choke is that choke is 3 room LoS whereas Throttle is fully area-wide.

Amranu

I've been fiddling with throttle over the last couple weeks. Seems to work often enough the first time you try it on someone, but they quickly wisen up and hold breath if you try it again.

Aktillum

@Amranu Yeah, hold automatic breath on asphyx attacks is even built into server-side curing. I always thought of it as a way to finish off someone you just used a puppet's worth of bleeds on. But if further investigation concludes 16 - 18 Int throttle with a collar is sexy and OP, you could just stick asthma and choke the shit out of people since it uses what, like 1 fashion? I mean not literally "just stick asthma" but a kill-method could definitely be worked out.

Dochitha

That's right. I asked this question because I just tried in arena with 3 meteors and quick 5 throttles, killed someone with 3800+ health straight. I am not sure what affects meteor damage, it looks like a lot of space for maximization for both Throttles and Meteors, like you said, area-wide.

Aktillum

@Dochitha Star tarot is based on Int and is effected by collar. Meteors shot from a bow, however, are not. Those do pure blunt damage.

In my opinion, if you wanted to really maximize a meteor+throttle kill strategy, start thinking of ways to prevent people holding breath. Concussion+aeon ought to do it, but that definitely won't work on smart people. Keep playing around and you'll figure it out though.

Sena

Aktillum said:

I believe Throttle is asphyxiation damage, which is unblockable type (except by HOLD BREATH), so no way to mitigate against it with resistances.

Asphyxiation is a normal damage type that can be resisted. The fitness miniskill gives asphyxiation resistance, dragons have asphyxiation resistance, occultists and alchemists can potentially have asphyxiation resistance, and anything that resists all damage types (serpent scales, tune in voicecraft, algiz rune, etc.) will resist it.

Aktillum said:

11 intelligence Throttle = 913 damage

13 intelligence + level 2 Collar = 1176

Based on that, 19 int throttle with a level 3 collar would likely do 1500-1600 damage against the same health/resistances.

That doesn't show anything about how it scales with max health though, so it doesn't mean much.

Aktillum

@Sena Doh, I completely forgot Fitness gives asphyx resist. Didn't know about scales/algiz though, that's funny. MY SCALEY SKIN IS IMPERVIOUS TO YOUR LUNG ATTACKS! If you're right about it scaling up to 1500-1600 based on my 4600 max health, that'd be about 34%. Needs testing on other maxhealths though, yeah.

Comitis

I'll be a test subject, Aktillum. Going grook just to play around with this.

Comitis

Aktillum We need to test it without and with Int bonus, then add collar to see how much the collar affects.

Sena

How much damage did they do, and how much int did you have?

Comitis

Oh. I didn't check damage. But. Base Int is 15. I can test it again.

Aktillum

Test Subject: Aktillum = 4600 maxhealth (Trans Fitness)

Lvl 2 sash, no collar (17 Int) = 4600 - 3342 (27%)

15 int, level 2 collar - 4600 - 3307 (28%)

Lvl 2 sash, level 2 collar (17 int) = 4600 - 3205 (30%)

Test Subject: Aktillum Dragonform= 6700 maxhealth (Trans Fitness, Lvl 1 Asphyx Res)

Lvl 2 sash, Lvl 2 collar (17 int) = 6700 - 4882 (27%)

Dochitha

I don't have complete information here, but based on the information I can grab here, it looks approximately:

Rough idea on Damage = INT*27 + 0.20H (just rough, very rough)

I am sure it has a fixed component and other defenses are not factor in, this is just a very rough idea...again, this is not a right formula.

Anyone can help me with math here...

Sena

Almost all attacks in the game have a damage formula that's a flat amount plus a percentage of max health (like 300 plus 15% of max health, for example), with the str/int bonuses having a standard formula that's used for nearly everything (so 13 strength will give a 6-8% bonus to almost all attacks that are modified by strength, 13 int will give a 6-8% bonus to all attacks that are modified by int).

Str/int also have diminishing returns; the farther you get from the base of 12 (str/int above 12 increases your damage, str/int below 12 reduces your damage), the less difference each point makes. I don't have a very good idea of what the formula for str/int is now.

Since there are so many factors to account for in these examples (fitness, dragon resistances, int bonuses that I can only estimate and don't have exact numbers for, collar, Scimitar of Yen-Sorte, and not being 100% certain of how everything stacks), I can't work out the actual damage formula for throttle, but it looks like the base damage is probably something like 250-300 for the flat portion then 14-17% of max health.

Austere

Aktillum said:

Down the road, pick up sash+collar for the increased mana and bashing damage (I think collar effects bleed curse dmg, Sena will have to correct me if its even worth it), but not before you focus on tanking artes first.

Collar does effect bleed damage against denizens, last I tested it.