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A little frustration

DisraeliDisraeli
in North of Thera
I'm sorry to pester you all, but I wanted to get this off my chest.  I played Achaea for years, and I mean a lot of them, my first character here was one of the originals.  I remember the glory days when Sarapis would hand out credits just for fun, when role play was the central focus of the game.  I remember the days where a "combat system" was a series of aliases and macros with a couple triggers thrown in there for good measure.  I am happy to say I have played the games Iron Realms has put out for so long, I have had a lot of fun with them and for the most part the experiences I have had over the years have been wonderful.  As we all know from being MUD fans, there is always some bummer times, we get wrapped up in the lives of the characters we create and sometimes things happen that we can't help but let overflow into our personal lives A little bit.  It is one of those times I want to talk about.

I came back to Achaea yesterday after god knows how long.  I had been reading all the news letters and the path the game had taken (though so very different from what I knew) seemed interesting and fun, one of the more enticing aspects being that anyone is able to pick up the class they found most interesting and run wild with it.  When I came back I immediately forwent my old Sentinel class, and with it dropped much of who Disraeli was in order to take him down a new path with new adventures to be had and new territory to explore.  I went to Certimene and picked up the Occultist class as it had been something I had wanted to play for a very long time.  I immediately went to Hashan and I have to tell you, it was a lot of fun.  I got into conversation with Aoghinius and was delighted at how natural the personality I wanted for my character came out.  Today I got to interact with Hellen and again had a blast as Disraeli just flowed, smoothe and natural.  Then things took a turn for the worse, I guess the Occultists got mad.

I'm not going to throw names around from the person who ruined a perfectly fun time, that is childish and we are mostly adults around here, but I was asked to meet with this person and was immediately attacked.  I of course ran, even back when I played the first umpteen times around I was never good at combat, but I am especially terrible having been back less than 48 hours.  This person then pursued and kept after me, I couldn't stay in Hashan, how rude would it be to bring that into their city, even ruder to expect them to give shelter to someone who isn't even a citizen (though as a knee-jerk reaction I did ask for shelter and again Aoghinius was awesome).  So I spent a good five minutes running around Sapience from a crazed Occultist and realizing how terrible the future of my character began to feel.  I was extremely disappointed this was how I came back into Achaea, hunted for taking on a class.  I get the Occultists not wanting to teach rogues, I get them even enemying me to the guild for being a rogue, but this was a bit brash and really ruined the fun I was having.  

I know many of you (if you even managed to read this far into my whining post) are thinking this was a lame reason to be upset, but this was pretty much a first impression.  Achaea is different in so many ways, the magic I felt the first time I stepped into Achaea some 15+ years ago came back to me, I felt like a newbie again. I am going to give it another go, I see so much fun to possibly be had with the direction I want to take my character.  I can see a lot of laughs if I can manage to keep people like Aoghinius and Hellen talking to me, and to be honest the path the admin have taken Achaea down just sems like a down right blast but this blemish really hurt.  I do hope the individual this concerns sees this, and I hope they decide to take a different approach. I do not mind conflict, but give some substance, some reason, some drive behind what it is. Make something both of our characters can grow from, don't just make this one of those "Oh look, I have a reason to kill someone" sort of affairs.  Please.
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Comments

  • MizikMizik
    Why is this a thread? Why not just have this handled in game?

    I assume Jinsun. Just issue him or whoever. Harassment is never acceptable.
    image
  • DisraeliDisraeli
    It is not about an issue, and I am not going to bug the admin over it, I was frustrated and wanted to talk about it I guess, so I did.  If this is not the place for it though, I can remove the thread, I don't want to make anyone mad.
  • JukilianJukilian
    My character is the Minister of Security for Hashan and he'd have no issues with you taking shelter in the city. You are a law abiding guest who has, as far as we know, done nothing to warrant these attacks on you and I'm sure Aogh and Hellen would agree. And the person attacking is very much an enemy of the city.

    (Jacen describes it pretty well)
  • NakariNakari
    edited April 2015
    Disraeli said:
    It is not about an issue, and I am not going to bug the admin over it, I was frustrated and wanted to talk about it I guess, so I did.  If this is not the place for it though, I can remove the thread, I don't want to make anyone mad.
    I mean, I don't want to criticize how you want to deal with the situation, but someone just hunting you down  out of the blue, in a way that significantly bothered you, is probably what issues are for. You definitely shouldn't feel bad about doing it, at the very least. Helping curb that kind of behavior just makes the game better for everyone.

    And this isn't to say I think the thread is uncalled for, I just think that at using issues to stop shitty behavior is probably something one shouldn't be too reluctant to do.

    I mean, from HELP PK:

    1. There must be a justifiable role-play reason for every attack and death.

    This does not mean you can attack other players repeatedly just for being a
    member of an opposing organisation. Neither can you justify your behaviour by
    claiming something like "my character is a psycho killer!" A player must have
    done something serious to you to warrant an attack, and they must be aware of
    the conflict before you attack them.

    Those of you who go around regularly attacking players because they belong to
    an organisation you dislike, look at you sideways, or for any other weak
    reason, will incur administrative punishment.

  • MakaelaMakaela
    Also while the Occie house dislikes Rogue occultists pretty sure its not a majority thing in the house to hunt down rogues for no reason outside they are a Rogue.

  • AktillumAktillum Philippines
    @Disraeli Yeah its definitely not cool. I remember when auto-class was introduced and some House Occultists threatened to hunt any rogue Occultists (this was around 2005), or block off Certimene or some such. Admins stepped in pretty quickly and said "no you won't".

  • JovoloJovolo
    If this is Jinsun, it's not the first time he's done this exact thing. I'd issue them over it. Completely uncool.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Yeah the Occultist House can  be pretty harsh on class members who choose not to join. If you want to do your own thing your best choice is just to ignore the bad energy and eventually they'll back off.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • SzethSzeth
    edited April 2015
    Kayeil said:
    your best choice is just to ignore the bad energy
    Won't get far as an occultist that way!
  • TaelTael
    edited April 2015
    First, as others have said, if you feel like this was unjustified and too relentless, the appropriate thing to do is issue. That isn't wasting admin time - that's exactly what the issue system exists for.

    On the other hand, I think there might be something more to this worth thinking about. You'll notice that HELP PK also says that generally speaking one death is rarely ever going to be considered a huge deal. An occultist killing a rogue occultist who has been hanging around in Hashan, particularly who is an older player, isn't that huge a stretch. While killing someone just for being part of an organisation or being a particular class is frowned upon, I don't think it's terribly unreasonable for an occultist to "send a message" by hunting you down once because they, in theory, don't tolerate rogue occultists. One death isn't too onerous for you and it really helps to maintain their "we don't tolerate rogue occultists" RP without actually allowing them to constantly hunt down rogue occultists. I think it's a nice compromise.

    It's hard to tell from the description, but it sounds like maybe what happened was that someone was trying to kill you for being a rogue occultist, you ran away, and they kept chasing you because they still hadn't killed you yet. If that's the case, the real problem here might be that it gave you the impression that, even if they had killed you, they would still be hunting you and you'd be looking over your shoulder forever. That almost certainly isn't the case and, if they did keep hunting you down, that would be a very, very clear case for an issue.

    If they never got you and you don't want to worry about being hunted for being a rogue occultist, it may be simpler to just take your lumps and let them kill you once. Intolerance for rogue occultists has been a huge RP thing for the occultists pretty much forever. If the price of going against that is one death, I don't think that's too exorbitant, even if technically the pk rules frown upon it, given that they also say not to sweat a single death most of the time. If the person/people keep coming after you after that, then issue and don't worry about taking up admin time because that's a very clear violation.
    My Nexus Scripts
  • AminahAminah
    @Disraeli
    I typed a lot of stuff and kept deleting it. Let me just say you're awesome, don't let this get you down, and I hope to see you around the realms more.
  • JosoulJosoul
    Not many from the occultists house in forums to shed some light, so here goes- to put it in short, tl;dr Tael nailed it. 

    Or to elaborate,
    1- Disraeli seeks occultists novices to ask about karma.
    2- that is considered 'harrassment' by occultists house standards ICly and he earns his enemying and a bounty on his head.
    3- Jinsun chases him and fails to kill. Then chases again and kills. Anyone from the house would do it for the bounty, we just dont have many members and you were not leaving Hashan to be targetted more easily by others, so yet another time the cleaning up job was left to Jinsun.
    4- bounty fullfilled, matter closed, even noted in logs when it happened.
    5- move along, nothing to see, Renaissance soon.

    If it sounded like he's going to hunt you forever that was occie longwithstanding RP, but nobody has it on his/her plans to hunt any and all rogues on and on, once per IC transgression generally closes the deal.

    Moral of the story: dont go asking ICly housed occultists for advice as a rogue and expect to not be enemied and killed for it if taken notice, take it to OOC messages/tells instead or toughen up. Complains filled under 'delete torcs occultists'.
  • MakaelaMakaela
    That has got to be the loosest IC definition of harrassment I have ever heard. As such I just lost all respect for the RP of your house. 

    Had he been asked to stop and continue maybe, if with the same individual  definitely.  Outside that and its just an excuse for your house to get loltextp.

  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    edited April 2015
    That really is a very, very loose way of defining harassment, but oh well... 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • NimNim
    When do you get a new free kill? Is it once per uncommunicated reason, once per year, or should people keep a list of everyone who ever used it on them because it's once per lifetime?
  • TalysinTalysin
    Yeah that's pretty dumb. Reminds me of cause farming.
  • MorroMorro
    Perhaps I've been away for too long, but that seems like a ridiculous reaction to asking about karma. Unless Disraeli was antagonizing the novice in some way, it's completely possible to RP dislike of rogues without hunting them down. Maybe in the old, old days before even Morro's time, hunting down rogues simply for not being in the House was okay, but it's not any more. This could have been handled much better by the Occultists involved.
  • JovoloJovolo
    It would be slightly less frustrating if it wasn't Jinsun that was the perpetrator (although equally as frowned upon). It's not the first time that I've known him to do this, by far, and it's quite telling that people expected that it was him/are not surprised knowing that it was him. Sounds like somebody needs to be reigned in a little bit...
  • JulesJules
    Occultist is an appealing class for a lot of people, especially someone returning from such a long dormancy, who would remember occultist as an especially fearsome class, and when this person was last playing, you could probably be an occultist in Cyrene, etc etc... but with all of that out of the way, is admin going to make Occultists an Ashtan only class at some point or what?  There seems to be a lot of support for that, and it would certainly clean things like this up (although some would argue it shuts down certain RP avenues, and there's some truth to that).  I'm curious now that I've read this thread. 
  • MorroMorro
    I'm kind of curious as to exactly what happened. It's never been unusual for the House to be pretty prickly, but this sort of thing is still really frowned upon OOCly. It's possible we don't have the whole story on either side.
  • JovoloJovolo
    No class is a "one-city-only" class as you can be a rogue with any factional class in the game. There are just more significant consequences if you make an enemy of the faction of whom's class you're playing. Anathema and Exocomm for Devotion/Necromancy, Forest enemy as a Forestal, and if you don't join the Occultists you don't get free practically-infinite karma reserves. It's just harder to play as a Devotionist or Necromancer if you fall ill of their factional homes. Forestals are affected to a much lesser extent just like Occultists. 

    Although I don't disagree with making it hard to play factional classes outside of their factions, it's a pretty fair status quo at the moment. 
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