New Sylvan Skills

Naverre

Propagation and Weatherweaving

Groves seems unaffected.

Discuss!

Tahquil

Don't care if not strictly true, still how I'm going to play it.

Dalran

Seems to me sylvans will have to be stacking a ton of focusables on people, I like when they bring in affliction potential to classes. +10 

Blujixapug

Where is the R a i n b o w ability? Did that get left out of the ab list by mistake?

Tecton

Blujixapug said:

Where is the R a i n b o w ability? Did that get left out of the ab list by mistake?

That's the secret ability, it's hidden from the AB listing.

Naverre

Tecton said:

Blujixapug said:

Where is the R a i n b o w ability? Did that get left out of the ab list by mistake?

That's the secret ability, it's hidden from the AB listing.

Secret ability? Bah. So unfair. How many other class abilities are you guys hiding?! -shakefist-

Makarios

Pit didn't actually get removed, for starters.

Tecton

Naverre said:

Tecton said:

Blujixapug said:

Where is the R a i n b o w ability? Did that get left out of the ab list by mistake?

That's the secret ability, it's hidden from the AB listing.

Secret ability? Bah. So unfair. How many other class abilities are you guys hiding?! -shakefist-

@Cooper, go hit this guy with Farag's Rot.

Naverre

Tecton said:

Naverre said:

Tecton said:

Blujixapug said:

Where is the R a i n b o w ability? Did that get left out of the ab list by mistake?

That's the secret ability, it's hidden from the AB listing.

Secret ability? Bah. So unfair. How many other class abilities are you guys hiding?! -shakefist-

@Cooper, go hit this guy with Farag's Rot.

I still remember how to cure that!

... And I thought rot was gone too? I should really play a Mhaldorian some day.

Blujixapug

These skills look really interesting. I like the respect that's been given to the two core themes of the sylvan class: the weather and the woodlands. Propagation offers many options and combinations, lots of utility and choices to be made, and adds some new options to sylvan offense while still maintaining its general style. I'm trying to figure out how Weatherweaving works, but it looks really interesting too.

I'm a bit disappointed to see them lose some assets like Illusion, but I guess that's mostly a roleplay tool these days. And, in my head, I hoped that if they got a weathermancing skill, it would let them truly manipulate the weather system and shape weather patterns across whole areas and continents, but perhaps that was a bit unrealistic to expect. They do still have Snowstorm if dickery is the goal.

Nim

Part of me is sad there's no propagation in human form to some degree, just because it'd be awesome to see sylvans running around with flowers growing out of their faces even when they're in relaxed, noncombat mode. I suppose that's what descriptions and class RP are for though.

Theris

Blujixapug said:

These skills look really interesting. I like the respect that's been given to the two core themes of the sylvan class: the weather and the woodlands. Propagation offers many options and combinations, lots of utility and choices to be made, and adds some new options to sylvan offense while still maintaining its general style. I'm trying to figure out how Weatherweaving works, but it looks really interesting too.

I'm a bit disappointed to see them lose some assets like Illusion, but I guess that's mostly a roleplay tool these days. And, in my head, I hoped that if they got a weathermancing skill, it would let them truly manipulate the weather system and shape weather patterns across whole areas and continents, but perhaps that was a bit unrealistic to expect. They do still have Snowstorm if dickery is the goal.

We have illusions in weatherweaving, although that seems like a recent addition since it's not in Naverre's skill lists.

Tecton said:

Blujixapug said:

Where is the R a i n b o w ability? Did that get left out of the ab list by mistake?

That's the secret ability, it's hidden from the AB listing.

Actually, please?

Nizana

oh my gods it is a walking garden version of my Chaos Knight. Propagation, that is. The other skills are completely unrelated.

Cynlael

Nevermind. Blind.

Theris

A few things about weatherweaving:

- There are several references in the latter abilities to "arcane power," but I don't see any description in other abilities of what this is or how to assess it. Could someone let me know if I'm missing something?

- We got a flood ability, but it seems like we have no way to remove flooding from a room (having lost quake in elementalism). Perhaps we should have something like an arid wind (earth and air channels) to dry up a flooded room?

Nakari

Theris said:

A few things about weatherweaving:

- There are several references in the latter abilities to "arcane power," but I don't see any description in other abilities of what this is or how to assess it. Could someone let me know if I'm missing something?

- We got a flood ability, but it seems like we have no way to remove flooding from a room (having lost quake in elementalism). Perhaps we should have something like an arid wind (earth and air channels) to dry up a flooded room?

If you DISTURB the weather in the room, each spell you cast from weatherweaving at an enemy in that room will generate 5 arcane power.

Kaisar

Theris said:

- We got a flood ability, but it seems like we have no way to remove flooding from a room (having lost quake in elementalism). Perhaps we should have something like an arid wind (earth and air channels) to dry up a flooded room?

Yeah I thought this was a little odd that we lost quake and gained flood, also we lost spells that kind of make sense being water/air spells such as Fog and Freeze etc.

Tahquil

Just reading over the skills in propagation I feel like eclipse doesn't exactly smoothly fit in to the new feel. What's thevpossibilty of changing the flavour of it? Perhaps a flash from a quarterstaff, or a hardcore sucker punch?

Blujixapug

Tahquil said:

Just reading over the skills in propagation I feel like eclipse doesn't exactly smoothly fit in to the new feel. What's thevpossibilty of changing the flavour of it? Perhaps a flash from a quarterstaff, or a hardcore sucker punch?

Or stick it in Weatherweaving.

Tahquil

That to, I thought the May have left it in prop to keep the skills balanced or something... Blah blah blah

Makarios

Fulmination now has an AP cost. Someone rightfully pointed out that its a lot more dangerous than holocaust given the ability to reliably stick sensitivity.

As for eclipse, we tried to keep the heartseed support all in propagation and the other stuff in weatherweaving (mostly for new player accessibility). Can definitely look at the flavour though.

Darkender

@Makarios
er, why can we not just make it not effected by sensi? If you add an AP cost that removes almost all of the interesting componentry of using fulmination/holocaust... you already cannot cast it in the air like holocaust, so honestly it really is nowhere near as good of a spell.

Darkender

and wow I just logged in to see it takes 30 AP, might as well remove the skill imo. The only use for holocaust at the moment is the ability to drop it suddenly without any sort of preparation. You already have -4- seconds after it's dropped to exit the room before EQ is regained, in addition to the timer. It's blatantly obvious when it's cast and when it's in the room (especially with color echoing to GTFO out), and now you have to first Disturb, then feedback, then hit the person or group you wish to fulminate 3 times before casting this spell.

Blujixapug

Yeah I'm confused that Fulmination would be nerfed based on an assumed case of the target having sensitivity, and given an AP cost. An AP cost means it requires prep to build AP and use Fulmination. But if you're assuming sensitivity, then in that context the sylvan already requires prep to stick sensitivity (and sync sensitivity timing with detonation), so the AP cost seems like a somewhat redundant balance. Any AP cost also has the consequence of substantially reducing situations in which you can use an ability, eg. ganks, ambushes, one-person shrine defense, because you must first fight for long enough to build up AP.

Fulmination already has several balancing factors, assuming its function is equivalent to Holocaust: it's a delayed timebomb so your target can leave the room before it detonates, the timer is unreliable by +/-5 seconds, the damage hits the caster as well. Sylvans have lost Freeze for frozen ground so they are less able to prevent people from running, and it's difficult to use active hindering afflictions like leg breaks in conjunction with a bomb timer. (They also lost Fog to block glance/squint, and they still have Snowstorm, but that eats into sunlight reserves.)

Sylvans have received substantial buffs to other kill routes with the arm propagations and synchronised/overcharged weather spells, so it's not as though Fulmination is a critical cornerstone ability, but it's so fun and unique that I'd be sad to see it marginalised.

Nakari

Without being to use it from the air, fulmination also got hit pretty hard for the fringe cases it was useful in groups. Now that it takes six seconds of casts before you can throw a single one out, it also totally loses that capability. 

If sensitivity was such a big deal (and I do tend to agree with the logic that sensitivity sticking already used the same sort of prep that building energy does), then just make it ignore sensitivity or something. At this point building the extra energy and going for electrify is probably always the better choice. 

Amranu

Fulmination already does more damage than holocaust, and Sylvan has plenty of burst damage options outside of it. It's fine.

Nakari

The issue is that the other burst options basically make it a useless skill. It's already not something optimal in combat a good fraction of the time , the energy cost just makes it a useless skill, where otherwise it's an interesting and unique one.

Darkender

it does the same as holocaust from what I've seen, it's just more people have fire res than electricity resist

Talysin

Blujixapug said:

Yeah I'm confused that Fulmination would be nerfed based on an assumed case of the target having sensitivity, and given an AP cost. An AP cost means it requires prep to build AP and use Fulmination. But if you're assuming sensitivity, then in that context the sylvan already requires prep to stick sensitivity (and sync sensitivity timing with detonation), so the AP cost seems like a somewhat redundant balance. Any AP cost also has the consequence of substantially reducing situations in which you can use an ability, eg. ganks, ambushes, one-person shrine defense, because you must first fight for long enough to build up AP.

Fulmination already has several balancing factors, assuming its function is equivalent to Holocaust: it's a delayed timebomb so your target can leave the room before it detonates, the timer is unreliable by +/-5 seconds, the damage hits the caster as well. Sylvans have lost Freeze for frozen ground so they are less able to prevent people from running, and it's difficult to use active hindering afflictions like leg breaks in conjunction with a bomb timer. (They also lost Fog to block glance/squint, and they still have Snowstorm, but that eats into sunlight reserves.)

Sylvans have received substantial buffs to other kill routes with the arm propagations and synchronised/overcharged weather spells, so it's not as though Fulmination is a critical cornerstone ability, but it's so fun and unique that I'd be sad to see it marginalised.

Time is in fact not unreliable >_>. Perfectly timing my holos lately. Bugged it so don't worry.

Raizen

Strangely enough, the classes subsection doesn't update properly when something is posted in another class section.