Talisman Re-Rolls

Tahquil

"In Aetolia..." 

... they have the ability to 'reroll' their relic pieces (which is equivilant to our promo talisman pieces). This reroll gives them a 50/50 chance of either getting another talisman piece or automatically trading in the piece for bound credits. The rules are you can't reroll a piece more than once and you can't reroll pieces given to you be other people.

Would this be viable in Achaea?

Bluef

They have something similar in Lusternia, but talismans aren't acquired the same way and...I can't remember if they can be traded or not. But a re-roll would be sort of neat. 

Sarapis

No, it's not viable unless we then proportionately tune down the chance of getting higher value Talisman pieces, which then means it's a wash anyway. (Also worth pointing out that in Aetolia, all relic pieces are worth only 10 credits at tradein.)

Trey

As much as I hate the fact that out of a batch of six three were the same (relatively) worthless piece, that's the nature of talisman promos. Sometimes you get lucky, mostly you'll get stuff you don't necessarily want. 

Penwize

So uh ... we're about half way into the month now and not a single one of the higher end talismans has been completed, to my knowledge.  The pieces don't even exist yet as far as I can tell.  Dummy pieces are rampant however.  Is there any chance this suggestion can be looked into again?  The rarity isn't exactly instilling faith in the promo at the moment.

Trey

Idgaf what they do, I just want mask wires so I can beg your runes off of you. Warhorn fittings would be nice too.

Sarapis

All of the Talismans can be completed with the right trades among players currently.

Penwize

Fair enough, but how many of them?  I still would have expected at least one to have actually been completed by now.  It's not like there's a shortage of people trying to trade/buy.

Sarapis

Anywhere between 1 in a couple cases to substantially more in others. The big ones are worth a lot of credits, and don't get drawn that often as a result.

Cooper

Didn't you say in the past that all credit sales talisman pieces dropped with an equal chance? 

Sarapis

The pieces within a particular talisman all have the same drop rate. Pieces within different Talismans have different drop rates. To balance them we basically assign credit values to each completed piece as if we were going to sell them as arties (necessary for the trade-ins) and then adjust the drop rates to produce an average value per piece that is acceptably higher enough than the average bonus that we want to give that players trading in pieces can still get a nice chunk of extra credits, while those who completely an item they want end up with either a bigger chunk of credits or an item that's worth(*) substantially more, on average, than average bonus. 

Sorry about that mouthful....
(*) worth in this case really means our guess, since we're not actually directly selling that item and so can't know if that price seems too high or too low.

One thing that does occur to me is that this kind of promo has a potential negative feedback problem where not enough people buying means not enough pieces on the market to create a liquid market for them, as it sounds like we may be seeing here. We'll look into it some more.

Penwize

Hmm, yeah, that suggests to me that this promo is double stacked against the higher-value talismans.  First, there are far more talismans in this one, and of those there are far more junk ones (dummies?!) or mediocre ones (reselling markwho?).  Second, their rarity is scaled by their value, and the junk/mediocre ones are valued lower, pushing the drops even more toward that end.

That will likely create negative feedback, yes, since the demand is starting to wane as people discover they have no chance at buying or trading for the bigger talismans.

Sarapis

Maybe we're not adjusting enough for the difficulty of putting together the pieces, vs. the nominal value of the pieces assuming a completed talisman.

Exelethril

Sarapis said:

Maybe we're not adjusting enough for the difficulty of putting together the pieces, vs. the nominal value of the pieces assuming a completed talisman.

Out of curiousity, if drop rate re-scaling is done, will people that bought credits during the earlier half of this month be compensated?

Trey

Exelethril said:

Sarapis said:

Maybe we're not adjusting enough for the difficulty of putting together the pieces, vs. the nominal value of the pieces assuming a completed talisman.

Out of curiousity, if drop rate re-scaling is done, will people that bought credits during the earlier half of this month be compensated?

One free piece of choosing would be stellar! Alternatively, make dummy pieces worth 25 redeem and I'll still be happy.

Edit: don't know why they'd compensate though. Talisman promos are by nature a gamble, and gambling is not always a guaranteed return.

Prythe

Trey said:

Exelethril said:

Sarapis said:

Maybe we're not adjusting enough for the difficulty of putting together the pieces, vs. the nominal value of the pieces assuming a completed talisman.

Out of curiousity, if drop rate re-scaling is done, will people that bought credits during the earlier half of this month be compensated?

One free piece of choosing would be stellar! Alternatively, make dummy pieces worth 25 redeem and I'll still be happy.

Edit: don't know why they'd compensate though. Talisman promos are by nature a gamble, and gambling is not always a guaranteed return.

Trey is 100% correct. If Achaea wanted to sell the completed sets, they would - sell the completed sets.

That was not their goal.

Their goal was to sell credits, and then a market would build for the rarer parts or sets, which would result in more purchases to match demand.... or, those who have the demand could try their luck again if they were not finding their missing bits on market.

So long as the sets can be completed, and the rarity to value is proportionate (and didn't the big S say he was going to check into that?) that is all we can ask for.

Wah Wah I can't finish..... As Trey would say, as Trey did say, "Gambling is not always a guaranteed return."  

(Which is why I don't consider either Poker or Blackjack gambling when I play. MUAH! - yes, there is luck involved, but it is math and a variety of skill sets which play roles as well, all within my control.)

Sanek

While I agree on the gambling part Prythe,
business wise if the valuable talismans can't be completed, and many people end up with 'dead' parts or worthless parts, they won't buy as much in the future as the average expected return of the promo lowers

Trey

@Sarapis said he was going to take a look at the drop rate, assuming that means they'll tweak it if they think it's too difficult to complete the pieces. Good enough for me. Hopefully he'll post here or make an Announce if they do.

Kakotas

What might be worth considering in future is a mystic talisman piece that will function as a portion of a talisman you haven't completed (1 piece worth). That way you can complete that 1 that you want but it would either be random or it would be at a pretty high credit sink price. (Heck if I don't find the other two pieces to the votive I might buy a couple).

Tahquil

Since this seems like the dominant talisman promo thread:

@Sarapis, @Tecton, @Makarios - Would it be possible at the end of the month we can see the spread of sets completed by talisman. (i.e. There are 4 bowstrings, 8 bloodcloaks, 5 million dummies etc in circulation) versus Sets that could be potentially made if all pieces were in one place (i.e. with pieces in circulation a total of 24 bowstrings, 12 bloodcloaks, holy fucktonnes of dummies etc could be made)?

Trey

Tahquil said:

Since this seems like the dominant talisman promo thread:

@Sarapis, @Tecton, @Makarios - Would it be possible at the end of the month we can see the spread of sets completed by talisman. (i.e. There are 4 bowstrings, 8 bloodcloaks, 5 million dummies etc in circulation) versus Sets that could be potentially made if all pieces were in one place (i.e. with pieces in circulation a total of 24 bowstrings, 12 bloodcloaks, holy fucktonnes of dummies etc could be made)?

Oh god, please this. I doubt there are enough pieces out there to make many complete sets of, say, Anima's or the Bloodcloak or the bowstring, but you never know.

Penwize

Tahquil said:

Since this seems like the dominant talisman promo thread:

@Sarapis, @Tecton, @Makarios - Would it be possible at the end of the month we can see the spread of sets completed by talisman. (i.e. There are 4 bowstrings, 8 bloodcloaks, 5 million dummies etc in circulation) versus Sets that could be potentially made if all pieces were in one place (i.e. with pieces in circulation a total of 24 bowstrings, 12 bloodcloaks, holy fucktonnes of dummies etc could be made)?

Any chance we can get these numbers?  Would really like to know if I should just stop spamming market entirely for a bowstring eyelet or not.

Kakotas

Particularly with sets that start becoming older I think @Penwize suggestion would be helpful and edifying to us all so we know how hard we have to look to find the one missing piece.

Tecton

Here's a list of all of the pieces that are on people's characters as of about 2 minutes ago:

ivoryhornmouthpiece ivoryhornfittings ivoryhornleft ivoryhornright ivorymedalliondisc ivorymedallionclasp ivorymedallionaccent ivorymedallionribbon ivoryspyglasslens ivoryspyglasseyepiece ivoryspyglassbody ivoryspyglassstrap ivorypennonsilk ivorypennonribbon ivorypennonthread ivorypennondye ivoryarmbandclasp ivoryarmbandinner ivoryarmbandouter ivoryarmbandaccent ivoryatlantiabody ivoryatlantiaarms ivoryatlantialegs ivoryatlantiahead ivorydummytorso ivorydummylimbs ivorydummyclothing ivorydummyarmour ivorytowerbase ivorytowerupper ivorytowerlacquer ivorybowstringcore ivorybowstringwrapping ivorybowstringeyelet ivorybowstringenchant quisalisdaggergrip quisalisboneupper quisalisbonelower quisalisbonerope quisalisbonestain quisalismedallionchain quisalismedalliontop quisalismedallionbottom quisalismedallionclasp quisalisglasseyepiece quisalisglassiris quisalisglasslens quisalisglasscase quisalisderillinhair quisalisderillinclothing quisalisderillintorso quisalisderillinhead quisalisdummytorso quisalisdummylimbs quisalisdummyrobes quisalisdummytargets quisalistombstonetop quisalistombstonemiddle quisalistombstonebase quisalistombstonescript quisalisarmbandserpent quisalisarmbandeyes quisalisarmbandtop quisalisarmbandbottom quisaliscloakcloth quisaliscloaklining quisaliscloakhood quisalismaskbone quisalismaskwire quisalismaskteeth quisalismaskrunes

Melodie

The eyelet, it exists.  

Penwize

That looks suspiciously like a list of all talisman pieces in the mark set! I'm onto you, Tecton!

Tharvis

Penwize said:

That looks suspiciously like a list of all talisman pieces in the mark set! I'm onto you, Tecton!

would it be more believable if he added numbers, how many of each there are still?

Tecton

1 each of ivorybowstringeyelet, quisalisdaggergrip, quisalisbonelower, and quisaliscloaklining. Multiples of everything else

Penwize

Wow.  The whole promo and only a single bowstring can be made, and that's if whoever has the eyelet decides to sell.  That's ... a little brutal.

Melodie

Yeah I'm reaaaallly glad I decided not to shell out for the bow. The disappointment right now would be extreme.

Tharvis

Penwize said:

Wow.  The whole promo and only a single bowstring can be made, and that's if whoever has the eyelet decides to sell.  That's ... a little brutal.

Get to buying!