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<bodypart></bodypart> Tags in Self-Description

JakaranaJakarana Member Posts: 50 ✭✭ - Stalwart
Simple in suggestion, but probably asking for some severe client errors in practice... However, it's worth a shot:
Just like how we can't see someone's underwear if they're wearing a shirt and pants, it strikes me as odd that we can see people's face behind a mask, their hair underneath a raised hood, or their royal buttcheek birthmark under 3 layers of clothes.

I think that allowing for tags to be placed in DESCRIBE ME to designate info that you may have covered up on your <head>,<face>,<torso>,<waist>,<arms>,<legs>,<hands>, and <feet> that won't appear to be hidden when people look at you if you have a piece of clothing that would cover that: Hood/hat, mask/veil, vest/shirt/dress, pants/dress/skirt, shirt, pants/boots, gloves, and shoes/boots respectively. (Possible exceptions for people with perception based abilities like fullsense active)

It --should-- be a simple tool that anyone could use (I could be very, very wrong), and it would be a great tool in better maintaining Suspension-Of-Disbelief for those Mysterious Sirens that like to wear veils and only want to show their face when they take it off (or a large, large, number of other situations), but frankly don't want to go through the effort of re-describing themselves each time, or risk triggers meant to do it for them glitching up.
I'm sure situations with house, clan, cult, or freemason marks hidden about your body could lead for some interesting scenarios at one point or another.

If this somehow does cause client errors, maybe try allowing for [bodypart] and [\bodypart] because the ( [ { ), ( ] } ), and ( \ | ) buttons seem massively unused with any client or command. I'd prefer that standard HTML/XML style tags are used for familiarity, but that might BE the reason it causes problems, if it causes problems.

Comments

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This would be pretty pointless (hard to use and not very flexible, you'd have to design your entire description around it and you'd be pretty limited in how you can structure it) unless it was a bit more complex, at the very least being able to specify different text to show in the case that the body part is hidden, and being able to nest them. Not many descriptions are just a single line for each body part.

    With those expansions, I think it would be great. I've played other games that allow for complex in-game scripting for descriptions (if statements, variables, math, randomness, testing for specific character statuses, etc.) and I love it, just adding a little bit of that sort of flexibility would be a big improvement.
    Shirszae
  • JakaranaJakarana Member Posts: 50 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Sena said:
    This would be pretty pointless (hard to use and not very flexible, you'd have to design your entire description around it and you'd be pretty limited in how you can structure it) unless it was a bit more complex, at the very least being able to specify different text to show in the case that the body part is hidden, and being able to nest them. Not many descriptions are just a single line for each body part.
    This isn't what I meant by tags at at all.

    Here, let me give an example:
    If I used,
    Describe Self + with dark, aged fur covering her body<face> and Slightly Leonine face</face>, punctuated with darker spotted stripes.
    Then it would show,
    She is a Tiger-like Rajamala with dark, aged fur covering her body and slightly leonine face, punctuated with darker spotted stripes.
    If I were wearing a mask at the time it would instead show,
    She is a Tiger-like Rajamala with dark, aged fur covering her body, punctuated with darker spotted stripes.

    By no means did I mean for it to be broken up into separate single lines.
    While would have to design your description around it slightly, the changes required would be minimal at most if you don't have an out-of-the-ordinary prose to your writing, and you could choose to ignore the feature entirely or partially. If you want your hair to be displayed in detail even with your hood up, then don't put head tags where you're describing your hair.

    The biggest drawback that I could see would be that the tags themselves would take away from the 2034 character limit, but that's minimal.
  • MakaelaMakaela Member Posts: 353 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I am not sure I like this idea... I am currently in the process of having an outfit designed that is tailored to Show the brand on my arm. This idea would make my outfits description useless.

  • JakaranaJakarana Member Posts: 50 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Makaela said:
    I am not sure I like this idea... I am currently in the process of having an outfit designed that is tailored to Show the brand on my arm. This idea would make my outfits description useless.
    No it wouldn't.
    You just wouldn't put "<arm></arm>" around where your brand is in your description, and it would display regardless of whether you were wearing a shirt or not. People would be able to look at you to see both your brand and your shirt that is specifically tailored to show it.
    You wouldn't have to do anything, and it'd work just as descriptions work right now.

    Having it as tags like this, that you write into your description yourself, would mean that this not even remotely mandatory in any way.

    Maybe I'm not getting what I mean across by referencing HTML. Let me explain in-depth:
    Click the little "</>" symbol in the "leave a comment" section after Bolding some text, to access the HTML view.
    You'll notice that there is "<b></b>" around the bolded text. This is how the browser knows to bold it.
    By no means are you REQUIRED to bold your text when you post in the forums, but YOu stILL Have thE ABILITY TO do it in anY PATtern you wANt.
    The tags in this suggestion would be there to let the server know what to display based on what clothes you are wearing, but you would still have to put them there yourself, just like you intentionally bolded the text.

    This isn't changing the current functionality of descriptions or describing in any way-- it's just adding the functionality for you to have the game hide parts of your description based on your current clothing, 100% voluntary and as customizable as your current ability to describe yourself.
    Simply just not putting the tags in your description would have it work exactly the same way as descriptions do now; so that someone who doesn't understand how the tags work, or doesn't want to be bothered with that can still have it the current simple way. While people that could use this feature for more creative and adaptive descriptions would be able to use it.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2015
    @Jakarana That's exactly how I understood it. It would be very limited like that, only a small percentage of players would really have anything they could do with it without redesigning and restructuring their descriptions explicitly to make use of it, and it would greatly limit how you could write and what you could add.

    It would mostly be good for small, separate features like tattoos or marks, and to a lesser extent barely-described body parts like your face example. It wouldn't have enough general usage to be worth adding, in my opinion.
  • MakaelaMakaela Member Posts: 353 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I understand how tags work. I just did not fully comprehend your idea as I quickly read it on my phone. I feel that this is still unnecessary and likely more work than this small benefit is worth to implement.

  • JakaranaJakarana Member Posts: 50 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Sena said:
    @Jakarana That's exactly how I understood it. It would be very limited like that, only a small percentage of players would really have anything they could do with it without redesigning and restructuring their descriptions explicitly to make use of it, and it would greatly limit how you could write and what you could add.
    Maybe I'm just having a hard time imagining what kind of description wouldn't be able to work with this given that you'd be describing something that you want contextually hidden with multiple other assets of your body in the same exact clause. Unless you're describing your face that you want to hide behind a mask in the context of your rear and fingernails, in the same half-to-quarter-of-a-sentence, where would this interfere or be limiting?

    I made my own description before I had this idea so let me try to accommodate that:
    Before:

    is a tiger-like rajamala of aged ebony fur, matured with enough silver hairs such that it slightly shimmers. Darker black spots, instead of stripes, ride along the pattern of her coat, outlining her yellow eyes and strong yet matronly leonine features with flowing dotted lines. A short tuft of pronounced hair rings her neck and scalp in a mane crudely shaven short. Six and half feet tall, she has a defined musculature all throughout her body, evident even beneath her fur- in her abdomen, her calves, and especially her arms and shoulders. The exceptions to this being her hips, thighs, and bust- assets forming a thick distinct hourglass figure fit for a matronly form. A black curved and sharp nail ends each finger, jagged from poor care.

    After:

    is a tiger-like rajamala of aged ebony fur, matured with enough silver hairs such that it slightly shimmers. Darker black spots, instead of stripes, ride along the pattern of her coat<face>, outlining her yellow eyes and strong yet matronly leonine features</face> with flowing dotted lines.<head> A short tuft of pronounced hair rings her neck and scalp in a mane crudely shaven short.</head> Six and half feet tall, she has a defined musculature all throughout her body, evident even beneath her fur- in her abdomen, her calves, and especially her arms and shoulders. The exceptions to this being her hips, thighs, and bust- assets forming a thick distinct hourglass figure fit for a matronly form. <Hands>A black curved and sharp nail ends each finger, jagged from poor care.</hands>

    I don't have any particular scars or marks, yet. But provided I did, I'd just enclose the clause with a relevant location. Since most of this is related to height and figure, and things that wouldn't be hidden by all but the most modest, obscuring robes you wouldn't put tags there.
    I mean, Maybe it's just how I write, I'd need an example of where it wouldn't work though to be able to understand.
  • HalosHalos San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,468 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2015
    So, you are saying anything you write in your description outside of the tags will always show up. Any text you delimit with tags will be automatically toggled off, based on the tag and based on what you are wearing. 


    DESCRIBE SELF + is a slim five and a half feet tall. <face> Hawk-nosed and broad-faced, his coal-black eyes are browless and careworn behind round spectacles</face>. <head>His militantly bald head raises questions, but</head><hands>ink-smudged hands do little to dispel notions of an occupation of clerical nature;</hands>a vaguely owlish cast surrounds his olive-skinned form. <torso>A bird-like tattoo alights upon his left shoulder.</torso> Delicate fingers fidget infrequently, as if anxious for activity. An acrid, ashen scent of smoke emanates faintly from his clothing, evocative of the heady conflagrance of constant sacrifice. 

    So, you're saying I could type the tags anywhere I want. 

    look Halos
    He is a human and is a slim five and a half feet tall. Hawk-nosed and broad-faced, his coal-black eyes are browless and careworn behind round spectacles. His militantly bald head raises questions, but ink-smudged hands do little to dispel notions of an occupation of clerical nature; a vaguely owlish cast surrounds his olive-skinned form. A bird-like tattoo alights upon his left shoulder. Delicate fingers fidget infrequently, as if anxious for activity. An acrid, ashen scent of smoke emanates faintly from his clothing, evocative of the heady conflagrance of constant sacrifice. He is wearing rough trousers of Jaruvian homespun, a Girdle of the Titans, a pair of Landstrider's boots, and a bracelet of acacia wood prayer beads.

    But if I put on clothing which matches those tags like so...
    You are now wearing spotless white gloves.
    You are now wearing a pristine white skull-cap.
    You are now wearing a cloud-white shirt of desert cotton.

    look halos
    He is a human and is a slim five and a half feet tall. Hawk-nosed and broad-faced, his coal-black eyes are browless and careworn behind round spectacles. A vaguely owlish cast surrounds his olive-skinned form. Delicate fingers fidget infrequently, as if anxious for activity. An acrid, ashen scent of smoke emanates faintly from his clothing, evocative of the heady conflagrance of constant sacrifice. He is wearing rough trousers of Jaruvian homespun, a Girdle of the Titans, a pair of Landstrider's boots, a bracelet of acacia wood prayer beads, spotless white gloves, a pristine white skull-cap, and a cloud-white shirt of desert cotton. 

    Then it hides the tagged text because of the clothing? Wearing a hat removes the text inside of the head tag and the same for hands and torso?

    That sounds interesting. An alternative to this is triggering a new DESCRIBE SELF to wearing and removing items. I've heard of people doing this but your idea seems like a less tedious way to do it.


    Jakarana
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm on my phone so I can't read the description in the spoiler tags or easily give examples. And @Halos, I can't easily quote either but your example description wouldn't work. The face tag has the period outside of it so you'd have an extra period floating there if it was hidden (that's easily fixed), and if head was hidden then the rest of that sentence wouldn't start with a capital letter (basically, you can't use these tags at the beginning of a sentence without including the entire sentence), and if head is visible but not hands it doesn't make much sense, so that sentence would need some rewriting to make it work.
    Halos
  • JakaranaJakarana Member Posts: 50 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Halos said:
    So, you are saying anything you write in your description outside of the tags will always show up. Any text you delimit with tags will be automatically toggled off, based on the tag and based on what you are wearing. 
    Pretty much, Halos. You got the idea exactly.

    Even though you can do something similar with triggers set to re-describe yourself when your remove a particular piece of clothing it's a lot cleaner and reliable this way because you don't have to remake and upkeep numerous triggers and description variations (that grow exponentially per type of clothing involved) as your clothing decays over time.
    And even past all of that, you'd need to worry about your descriptions getting mixed up with those of seconds or alts if you have them.

    This is something that seems much much easier to handle on the server end as opposed to the client end.
    And it's near infinitely simpler for people who want to do something like this, and can easily be ignored by people that aren't interested.
  • MakaelaMakaela Member Posts: 353 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    The time to add the coding for this would only be worth it if more than say 10% of ghe playerbase feels they -need- it.

  • SaevaSaeva Member Posts: 1,940 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hm. It doesn't take very long to make triggers for these sorts of things. The amount of upkeep is maybe 30 seconds every month.


  • TitonusTitonus Youngstown, OhioMember Posts: 238 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I agree that something like this would best be handled client side with aliases and/or triggers.

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