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Occultist Cosmetic Bodywarping

JakaranaJakarana Member Posts: 50 ✭✭ - Stalwart
edited March 2015 in The Scarlattan Theatre
In reality, cosmetic surgery goes back to Ancient Egyptian times, involving nose reconstruction and the like.

With the chemical and physiological studies of the Alchemists, and the straight up arcane abilities to warp flesh that Occultists possess; It makes me wonder what the status or condition of bodily modifications and surgery in Achaea would be.
Naturally this is all generally circumvented by our capabilities to describe ourselves as we wish, within reason, but as far as justification for the minor commonly used features not exactly in line with the race (Newer players incidentally describing pointed ears on Tsol'aa, Normal eye colors on a Rajamala, Cow-tailed Trolls for those few who got them confused with Celtic and Brothers Grimm variety) or the desire or need to change it later (Realizing gray eyes is in poor taste comapred to blue, character is starting to get backpains and needs a reduction) it seems like a good scapegoat to explore.

And I'm sure the Occultists themselves would have a little more room to befuddle with appearances, a grook with non-prehensile facial tendrils, a troll having a crown of teeth around the crown of his head, a siren going full Mileena, a dwarf with a teratomic beard (nasty, don't google on a weak stomach) whether that was all intentional or a byproduct of delving into the art incorrectly.

It seems like an area that would be fun to play around with in the realm of roleplaying, however I also know that from my experience in tabletop games, this kind of thing is a dangerous, dangerous minefield. The last thing I want is people using this for Rajamala Nekomimi, or "Gender" antics that have caused firestorms in the past, especially over Satyr/Siren.

What do you guys think of this? It's probably also helpful or for the best if a Divine to hammer out and lay down the limits of Occultism with a rod of iron if this is to be explored at all.
However, restrictions set in place, enabling a Dr. Steinman style personality and background would be a rather interesting thing to have.
AchimrstBoosteya

Comments

  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    People can basically describe themselves however they want, whether you have a story for how you look is entirely up to you and your RP ability it seems!
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,218 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This sounds awfully a lot like the Bene Gesserit body-mastery shit from Dune.

    Yes please. 
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    JakaranaAlcinaeBoosteya
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,794 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Or the Tzimisce from Vampire: the Masquerade.

    JakaranaAlcinaeAuromBoosteya
  • JakaranaJakarana Member Posts: 50 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Achimrst said:
    People can basically describe themselves however they want, whether you have a story for how you look is entirely up to you and your RP ability it seems!
    True, but there's always the question of what's tasteful and allowed by Achaea's established thematics and lore, and more specifically maintaining a suitable environment. Just like you can't name yourself "Eepeepeep"

    Looking over the help files again it seems rules on names and descriptions laxed up over time, which is good, as even though I can't remember my first character's name, my first memory of Achaea was being yelled at to change it. Easing up on newbies for a better first impression so you can later guide them is a much better solution.
    But I digress, Common Sense should still apply.

    Traits indicative of other races should be avoided such as carapaces on non-Horkval, Wings on Non-Atavian, non-bird wings on Atavian (I could be mistaken on this, please correct me if I am), human skull/face for Raja or Xoran.
    Things that would have mechanical reflections or confuse a newer player should be avoided, such as additional limbs that aren't small and obviously vestigial as you can only weild two things and only have your two normal arms broken (I've seen a few Horkval handle extra arms tastefully). I'd also specifically avoid the world "shriveled" because of it's relation to afflictions and curing.
    And I'd go with the general rule of thumb from pointy ears on Tsol'aa, is that making a given asset scarred, asymetrical, and obviously unnatural as a good indicator that it's been modified is a pretty good idea.
    Also, talk about the Tzimische reminds me: Keep any details best left to the bedrooms, private and preferably consistent with the gender you signed up for.

    But like I said, I'm just erring on the side of caution with this. I dont mean to tell anyone how they should play.
    Boosteya
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,249 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    People should drop the thing with the Tsol'aa pointy ears. Seriously, people have been playing them that way for a long time. Yes, they were not supposed to be canon, but alas, the game marches on.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I have never described my Tsol'aa with pointy ears, the game literally never mentions their ears so I never really cared enough to describe them.
    Jakarana
  • RohaiRohai Member Posts: 451 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Jakarana said:
    The last thing I want is people using this for Rajamala Nekomimi, or "Gender" antics that have caused firestorms in the past, especially over Satyr/Siren.
    Yes, god forbid anything like that should happen. We wouldn't want to upset your quaint ideas and delicate sensibilities about gender or anything.
    ShirszaeSenaBoosteya
  • JakaranaJakarana Member Posts: 50 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Rohai said:
    Jakarana said:
    The last thing I want is people using this for Rajamala Nekomimi, or "Gender" antics that have caused firestorms in the past, especially over Satyr/Siren.
    Yes, god forbid anything like that should happen. We wouldn't want to upset your quaint ideas and delicate sensibilities about gender or anything.
    Please, I'm the least bothered by that stuff. But I also know how it tends to cause arguments, usually initiated with rhetoric exactly like that. Ctrl+C,Ctrl-V'ed. So please, let's avoid this. I shouldn't have even mentioned it.
    AerekBoosteya
  • RohaiRohai Member Posts: 451 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    You're right, you shouldn't have.
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Judging by the simmering outrage and immediate leap to ad hominem, I don't think Jak's the one with the delicate sensibilities. Take a breath and get a grip.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
    Boosteya
  • RohaiRohai Member Posts: 451 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    There's really no productive way to respond to a statement that ridiculous, so I am just going to say "acknowledged" and move on here.
    Boosteya
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    In summary,

    Make it an awesome description and have a story behind it.
    Shirszae
  • NakariNakari Member Posts: 596 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I don't think Jak meant anything by it, but putting gender in quotations and referring to them as antics is not necessarily a kind portrayal of the many issues around it that exist in real life and that people have expressed or explored IG (I'm honestly pretty uncomfortable with that particular reference to them as well. That shit can be important). Seems like a poor wording that created some unsurprising misunderstanding.

    Oh, you and you know, in regards to

     Jakarana said:
    Realizing gray eyes is in poor taste comapred to blue
    I just feel the need to point out that grey eyes aren't all that uncommon! (I know that's not relevant to the overall point of the post, but it was just kinda weird to have someone say that my eye color was in "bad taste" :P)

    AchimrstMorroShirszaeBoosteya
  • JakaranaJakarana Member Posts: 50 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Bah, I meant nothing by it. I've got a stomach bug at the moment and the nausea is removing my ability to type or think clearly. And I'm out of Ginseng and Ferrum. If it fits your theme better, it fits your theme better. I just wanted to give an "Abnormal to Standard" example.
  • MorroMorro Member Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Physical oddities are not at all uncommon among Occultists (or at least they weren't before I went dormant). @Flair would probably be the most notable with his rotting flesh and maggots and all that, but there were a fair few oddly coloured eyes and withered limbs and whatnot, not to mention the mutations that come along with Transmogrification anyway. I don't know that I've ever seen any purely cosmetic (from an IC perspective) mutations, though, but it would be a neat concept to play with. The difficulty would be knowing where to draw the line, as there isn't really a rule of thumb. Every one has creative freedom, but you also have to use your best judgement as far as what fits with the canon already in place. While cosmetic alterations are neat, I am of the opinion that having an RP reason to back it up makes for a richer experience all around for you and for those who might interact with you and inquire about your physical appearance.

    P.S. Gray eyes are the best.
    Boosteya
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,356 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Natural heterochromia classed as a mutation in Achaea standards? Just curious cause I've seen a few characters with different coloured eyes but to be honest I've never asked if there was a story behind them...
  • MorroMorro Member Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Hrm. I guess it is a mutation, but if it's something your character has had since birth then it doesn't necessitate a reason/story. This doesn't make it any less awesome though.
  • JakaranaJakarana Member Posts: 50 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited April 2015
    Aodfionn said:
    This sounds awfully a lot like the Bene Gesserit body-mastery shit from Dune.

    Yes please. 
    Reading over that and Occultism in general, they both seem pretty dang close to eachother, I wouldn't be surprised if occultism was inspired by it either directly or indirectly.

    Going back to the core point, I'm personally in favor for getting your unique quirks and traits as part of actual RP with other players, since you have more of a stable story, memory, and witnesses as people were actually a part of it, but it doesn't really matter that much since you have a full 18 years before character creation and then ~9 months of your life before your birth, in which stuff could have happened.

    Since anything description-wise is possible, I guess it all goes back to what the big, core, mostly-objective NO's are when it comes to descriptions in general. The more I look, the more it seems rules have gotten more lax since I last played 3ish years ago.
    And more clearly where can a mix of Occultist Warping+Alchemist Physiology "surgery" come in place to stretch these restraints?
    In short, I'm unsure of the current state of the description rules since they're worded more loosely, and I would hate for anyone to cross any lines anywhere --spoken or unspoken-- and get in or cause any trouble for anything, which was the source of my former comment;
    I'm sorry if I said it wrong, intent is hard to display in text.

    So where is the line crossed? and where and how can the line be bent?

    Edit to avoid double posting:
    Another talking point I just found out: The Spiritwalkers are the only organization with both Occultists and Alchemists under the same roof. So this would mostly concern them.
    If anyone from the Spiritwalkers could talk about any kind of standards they have in this regard, if any, it would be wonderful. House history, discoveries, and lore that you're willing to share would also be welcomed too.
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,927 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Le sigh. This thread seems quite aloof. Generally, your main concern in body modifications or deformities in Achaea is a matter of credibility and not of hard and fast administrative rules. If you want your character to have a cool story that people participate in, you can't do it well without considering the lore surrounding the attempted changes. So, if you're an Atavian with pterodactyl wings, when someone asks why you have them, you better have a good reason aside from "uh they look cool" Jinsun has eyes made of hematite shards. I don't have them just because they look cool. I have them because he was kidnapped by Targossas and was tortured until they eventually destroyed his eyes. He spent years blind ICly and even learned conjuration to use with Chaos and developing a prosthesis. He finally came up with a working prosthesis but his daughter was injured in the ritual and had severe side effects. When people RP Chaos there generally is some consequence. It's too powerful of a force to say I did this really complicated thing and it went perfectly! But I think it's good that there's no hard limit. That's what makes this such a cool game. If you want knives for hands, you just need a damned good backstory. One of the most violent reactions I've ever had was when a priestess healed Jinsun's Mark of the Twin of her own volition. It wasn't a great idea to just be like "I heal you" so Jinsun let her know it, going as far as to carve a different symbol in her face. Gotta be careful with body RP because other characters will rek you
    image
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    All i can think of now is an RPCombat Logs is totes in order. Just people sharing exchanges of freehand rp showing two folks trying to duke it out in the throws of rp.

    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
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