Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Copying Journals/Manuscripts

Jurixe
Jurixe Where you least expect itMember Posts: 1,748 @@ - Legendary Achaean
Problems I've repeatedly run into while copying all manner of documents (journals/manuscripts/scrolls):

A) You can't copy a journal that doesn't belong to you
B) You can't replicate the design of the journal/manuscript that you copied. There exists very limited options for journal customisation post-copy, and this doesn't exist at all for manuscripts
C) You can't copy scrolls, which also sometimes hold important works

The main problems that arise from A alone include the following:
i) As above, you cannot copy the design - pure aesthetics, but sometimes it would be nice to retain the original design
ii) People resort to copying the tomes by hand and generally don't credit the original author, which is unfair to their effort and gives false credit to the copier

ii) is the more important problem, and so I suggest the following fixes:

1) Allow journals/manuscripts/scrolls to be replicated exactly as they are, complete with author, title, and outward bindings.
2) If it's in a library, it should be able to be copied. This may be an unpopular opinion without caveat 3):
3) Have journal/manuscript/scroll owners be able to 'lock' their own volumes and/or set them as locked by default. That way, those that don't mind people copying their work can unlock their own volumes, and people that do don't have to change anything.
4) If option one is not implemented, please put more journal/manuscript customisations around Sapience.

I'm sure I've forgotten something but I'm falling asleep so hope it's understandable. Comment away.
If you like my stories, you can find them here:
Stories by Jurixe and Stories by Jurixe 2 

Interested in joining a Discord about Achaean RP? Want to comment on RP topics or have RP questions? Check the Achaean RP Resource out here: https://discord.gg/Vbb9Zfs


HerenicusDelronaAereidhnaRohaiMelodieAchimrst[Deleted User]TristynKyrraTeghainePraxidesSkyeReiloch

Comments

  • Tristyn
    Tristyn Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    This, please this. It would make my life much easier!
    Focus on results and you'll never see progress. Focus on progress and you'll see results.
    Yae
  • Ahmet
    Ahmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bump.

    Seriously, this would be great. Library expansions incoming, so please please please.
    Huh. Neat.
  • Ahmet
    Ahmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2015
    And being able to do it -in- the library would be nice too, since SOME PEOPLE require that you check things in :angry:

    EDIT: Before you leave the library, that is.
    Huh. Neat.
    Despran
  • Melodie
    Melodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,185 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ahmet said:
    And being able to do it -in- the library would be nice too, since SOME PEOPLE require that you check things in :angry:

    EDIT: Before you leave the library, that is.
    I think this is a reason precisely to not allow it. Else, I imagine most places will close their libraries to the outside world, save the libraries meant to be public.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • Skye
    Skye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,171 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm in the middle of copying some stuff with a ton of ASCII in it. Do you have any idea what a hassle it is to copy ASCII on mudlet? all the \s disappear unless you double them up!


    MelodiePraxidesHalosAereidhna
  • Ahmet
    Ahmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Melodie said:
    Ahmet said:
    And being able to do it -in- the library would be nice too, since SOME PEOPLE require that you check things in :angry:

    EDIT: Before you leave the library, that is.
    I think this is a reason precisely to not allow it. Else, I imagine most places will close their libraries to the outside world, save the libraries meant to be public.
    1: You can lock tomes
    2: People can still copy-paste
    Huh. Neat.
  • Melodie
    Melodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,185 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you wanna take the time to copy/pasta a longass tome, deal with the editing, whatevs. If you have permissions to copy, then you'll be able to take it out of the library to copy. I just don't support the idea of making it easier for you to do so without permission, especially if the only reason books may not be locked is because they're not complete (such as books about events during certain year spans, or etc).
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • Shirszae
    Shirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,521 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Personally, I think its worse if sub-optimal copies with awful editing are floating around. Specially if people attribute it to you and not to whoever made the copies.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    PraxidesTael
  • Tael
    Tael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    Melodie said:
    Ahmet said:
    And being able to do it -in- the library would be nice too, since SOME PEOPLE require that you check things in :angry:

    EDIT: Before you leave the library, that is.
    I think this is a reason precisely to not allow it. Else, I imagine most places will close their libraries to the outside world, save the libraries meant to be public.
    Except, again, they can still just copy all of them anyway.

    I understand what people want locking and copy restrictions to do, but so long as copy-paste remains a thing, there just isn't any actual point to it.

    If people were going to lock their libraries away from the world to prevent copying, they would be doing it already. And they will continue doing it whether or not locking remains or goes away and whether or not you can copy in a library or elsewhere.

    Though, personally, I think copying should still require Mydoin. Having scribes that produce the copy and all that makes more sense to me, especially if the "binding" gets copied.
    ShirszaeAereidhna
  • Jurixe
    Jurixe Where you least expect itMember Posts: 1,748 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2015
    I'm quite on the fence about public copying and such. @Tael is right in that as long as copy/pasting (manually or otherwise) is possible, it just doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. I do know a lot of people (myself included) who are deterred by the thought of copying/pasting pages manually, but of course if you really want a particular book in your shelf, tedium isn't a problem.

    The motivation for me personally in making this topic is books being in public libraries (public temples, public areas like the Lucretian Athenaeum, anywhere you can get to that isn't affected by enemy status of any kind) that can't be copied. By making a book available in a public library, you acknowledge that your work is now free for all to peruse with your blessing as you have chosen to display it in a public setting, and the logic naturally translates to copying as well (since copying/pasting is a thing).

    If manual copy/pasting cannot be avoided, why shouldn't copying in general just be embraced instead and made so that it can give credit to the original author?  That way at least you are still properly acknowledged for your work, and it's preserved in the form that you made it. If you want a way to distinguish between works that you donated yourself and 'copied' works, that's what the 'This item bears the mark of X' is for. Otherwise, perhaps make it so that those with CoAs can mark pages with their arms, mainly for manuscripts that might have multiple authors. The author should show up in the title when you probe the book, as scrolls do, and that shouldn't change - but if this isn't the case currently (can't check because at work) then maybe it should be made so.
    If you like my stories, you can find them here:
    Stories by Jurixe and Stories by Jurixe 2 

    Interested in joining a Discord about Achaean RP? Want to comment on RP topics or have RP questions? Check the Achaean RP Resource out here: https://discord.gg/Vbb9Zfs


    ShirszaeAereidhna
  • Kyrra
    Kyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,941 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    When Selene died, the entire contents of the Order library went with her. Another Beloved had, for some reason, copied almost everything to a txt file long beforehand, so I was able to use that to transcribe about 12-13 books. I gave credit to all the original authors, but when you transcribe into journals (instead of manuscripts), you're still given default credit with being the author of said journal, and that irks me a little bit because I wished that they were just a little more authentic.

    We ended up having to seal a few manuscripts that weren't finished in the library of Vastar's public temple, because Bonko was causing havoc in there and we didn't want to lose what others had written, which would have been irreplaceable. Most of them likely wouldn't have gotten finished, with the authors having moved on or gone dormant (eg. Cinya) but at least the option was there. Now we're just stuck with incomplete works, but at least all the information is available even if not all of it is relevant anymore.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    TrillianaAereidhna
  • Ahmet
    Ahmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Plus apparently you can't copy a journal if you're not the author (even if it's a library book) which irks me.
    Huh. Neat.
  • Vayne
    Vayne Rhode IslandMember Posts: 1,897 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2015
    It'd be nice if you could copy the journal of someone else, but it was marked as a second edition, etc. to show it was not the autograph. Likewise, it would be cool if the cost, or at least part of it was given as a royalty to the original writer. Of course, this does not prevent the fundamental issue of copy pasta. Perhaps if the author was only able to make a certain number of prints first edition. This could potentially combat copy/pasting by adding a level of rarity to certain texts that might intrigue certain collectors while librarians might shun bootleg copy/paste edition/
    image
    TaelKyrra
  • Achimrst
    Achimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You're supposed to RP this stuff guys, instead of just copying it make sure to write in a page that this is a copy and maybe why you are copying it. Such things are done IRL when copying things to preserve the history behind why it is being copied. You should try and get a copy of Homer's The Illiad and the Odyssey!
    Halos
  • Jurixe
    Jurixe Where you least expect itMember Posts: 1,748 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    We do as a last resort currently, but not everyone does and the idea here is to see if we can change some of the unnecessarily inhibiting mechanics to keep a fairer standard overall. We won't die without it, but it'd be nice to have.
    If you like my stories, you can find them here:
    Stories by Jurixe and Stories by Jurixe 2 

    Interested in joining a Discord about Achaean RP? Want to comment on RP topics or have RP questions? Check the Achaean RP Resource out here: https://discord.gg/Vbb9Zfs


    Tael
  • Skye
    Skye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,171 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Actually, while we're writing journals by hand, I've come across another thing that I would like added to this. 

    I'd like for there to be a bookbinder or such who can add/re-arrange pages of your journal. I started copying something recently, and then realised that it was about time that this particular book might be updated with new information (a second edition if you will). I wanted to add a forward to reflect this except the only way I can do this is by recopying all the pages all over again to leave a blank one in front. T_T 


    PraxidesDespranAchimrst
Sign In to Comment.