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Elections

Prythe
Prythe Member Posts: 550 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
Quite often there are vote splits - and in Cities it is required there be at least two contestors for an election to even begin.

My thought it simple  and stems from watching California, US politics --->

Initial election is a "Primary." 

If one candidate receives a majority of the votes (50% plus 1) then they are elected.

If not, the top two vote getters are in a "run off" and then the one with the most votes is elected.

This ensures that whoever gains the office is wanted by more people than not (or more people than who want the other candidate) and there won't be a situation such as:

36%  Candidate A - Jerk everybody is tired of
33% Candidate B - Sweet person, loved by all
31% Candidate C - Effective person, would be great at the job

64% of the voters wanted Candidate A out - almost two thirds of the voters! -  but Candidate A gets to stay in.

With a requirement of needing more than half the votes to win the above results would result in a "run off" between Candidate A and B, with a final result looking something like this:

41% Candidate A
59% Candidate B

Sweetie wins, the jerk is gone. Everybody rejoices!





- To love another person is to see the face of G/d
- Let me get my hat and my knife
- It's your apple, take a bite
- Don't dream it ... be it


EilonaTeghaineBluef

Comments

  • Rangor
    Rangor Member Posts: 3,308 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Doesn't sound like a bad idea.
    image
    HerenicusTeghaineBluef
  • Santar
    Santar Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,482 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2015
    Terrible idea. You have no idea who someone's 'second choice' in an election would be. 

    The people voting for person C could very well be prioritizing person A as their vote if it were just an election between A and B. 

    However, I don't like to shoot down an idea without giving a better one, so here you go:

    What should happen with Achaea elections, is there should be something akin to the "election primaries" in order to weed the field down to two candidates. You identify who the two most popular candidates are, and then in order to have a fair election, you hold another election with just those two to see who wins.

    It's a simple concept that would fix the problem. Just have half the election period be voting between ALL candidates, then the final two get sent to a showdown. This is the most fair and logical way to do things in order to determine the true winner. This is also the way things happen for most of the free world IRL too.

    image

    HerenicusTharvis
  • Jules
    Jules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    What you actually want is approval voting. 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting

    Achimrst
  • Rangor
    Rangor Member Posts: 3,308 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I almost started debating irl politics. Sorry. I will post no more.
    image
  • Eld
    Eld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
  • Prythe
    Prythe Member Posts: 550 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Santar, a primary system was exactly what I was trying to describe. Thank you. 


    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


    Theris
  • Ellodin
    Ellodin HawaiiMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 951 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    not really how primaries work since there's no distinct parties from which candidates are selected, which is a major point of the concept.  even in the USA, which is very much a two-party system in practice, general elections have more than two candidates on the ballots.

    idea is from an old Eleusis news post by Challowyne nearly verbatim.  disregarding that, amusing to frame things as "jerk" vs. "sweet person" that "everyone" either is tired of or loves, yet the former still wins.
    And as he slept he dreamed a dream, and this was his dream.
  • Jarrod
    Jarrod Member, Seafaring Liason, Secret Squirrel Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Would be interesting if there was a vote where everyone could cast two votes, but not for the same individual. Optional to cast one or both.

    You'd have some people obviously still only casting one to support their friends, but it's more likely that the less close friends of the person, or who just think the person is popular, will vote for a different individual. If there really was an election like:

    49% A - A's group, hates B
    49% B - B's group, hates A
    2% C - Good candidate, blah blah

    It's actually somewhat likely C wins if there's a two-vote per voter style in place.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

    Prythe
  • Jules
    Jules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    ^This is exactly how approval voting would work with three candidates, and seriously, it's a great system.  If you really get into it you can argue about some pros and cons vs. other systems (some of which depend on your point of view), but it's simple and fixes the split vote problem. 
  • Caladbolg
    Caladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Not sure if this is changed since I don't even remember the last time i've voted on something but.

    Should make it so that only one account type thingy can vote per election.

    I've heard some stories about people hopping to alts like crazy and voting it up. to give them or someone else an advantage. and while sure if Draqoom ran for Dawnlord Caladbolg gonna vote for Draqoom. while Caladbolg alt in same city Might vote for the other person because of how that persons views change from caladbolgs.. No people just gonna abuse the crap out of it. While im sure abusing this would result in becoming a tree (or ip banned or something) Seemingly.. Might be impossible to actually catch people in the act of if they just be sneaky about it. (And not create 500 alts all at once to do it)

    Bluef
  • Tharvis
    Tharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    isn't there an activity requirement to be able to vote?
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • Aodfionn
    Aodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,241 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That still leaves it open to getting Ashadra'd, saladbowl. Should add activity requirement, if one doesn't exist.
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?"
    Rangor
  • Melodie
    Melodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,185 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aodfionn said:
    That still leaves it open to getting Ashadra'd, saladbowl. Should add activity requirement, if one doesn't exist.
    I lol'd pretty bad at this. #sorrynotsorry

    To actually contribute, Saladbowl, that's actually illegal if I recall right. The whole alts thing voting a person, I mean.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
    TristynKyriella
  • Tharvis
    Tharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Melodie said:
    Aodfionn said:
    That still leaves it open to getting Ashadra'd, saladbowl. Should add activity requirement, if one doesn't exist.
    I lol'd pretty bad at this. #sorrynotsorry

    To actually contribute, Saladbowl, that's actually illegal if I recall right. The whole alts thing voting a person, I mean.
    problem is bringing it to admin attention with some minor proof (well, technically you can report anything with reasonable suspicion) but that'd end up in sore losers reporting every time they lose
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    Melodie
  • Aodfionn
    Aodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,241 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't think it should get to the point of needing proof - a simple thing that says you can't vote unless you logged in X times or were active within X time of the election being opened. 

    The far better alternative to that, though, is to abandon the fragile and easily rigged election system and come join in the Theocracy. Make you Targ Team Offical.
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?"
  • Melodie
    Melodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,185 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Good news is, I'm pretty sure most elections are pretty closely watched by patrons, nowadays, to watch for that kind of funny business. Especially since they're actually not nearly as common as they used to be.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
    Agrias
  • Lorielan
    Lorielan Moderator Posts: 224 Immortal
    Elections are already setup to deal with this sort of thing. Also, votes cast by players who are not above the minimum activity threshold simply do not count towards the end result.
    TharvisMelodieAodfionn
  • Prythe
    Prythe Member Posts: 550 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Aodfionn said:
    That still leaves it open to getting Ashadra'd, saladbowl. Should add activity requirement, if one doesn't exist.
    The active rule did not exist "back in the day" for what it is worth. 

    In Los Angeles many of the city offices pretend to be non-partisan, so the primaries are not about selecting a candidate to represent a political party but to either elect a winner (50 percent plus 1) or winnow the field to the top two candidates for a "run off."

    A recent election had two long time Democrat Congress critters pitted in the same race (as part of a larger field) due to redistricting.   Neither garnered the fifty us one so the run off was between just the two of them. 

    (See Sherman vs Berman.)



    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • Taraza
    Taraza Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Go the Mhaldor way, have appointed leaders, instead of this voting nonsense. 
    image



  • Aktillum
    Aktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'd be supportive of elections getting a bit of a makeover.

    I do want to say though that I'm extraordinarily disappointed that not one single org in Achaea use duels to the death as a basis for leadership selection. Not one. 

    PrytheTeghaine
  • Saibel
    Saibel ChicagoMember Posts: 74 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Taraza said:
    Go the Mhaldor way, have appointed leaders, instead of this voting nonsense. 
    Alas but I would love if we entertained proper elections, where only those of CR3 and above may cast a vote. Fun fun.
    Dragonknight tells you, "SAIBEL SAIBEL BO BAIBEL FE FI FO FABLE."
  • Prythe
    Prythe Member Posts: 550 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Now that I am home and can actually think and type at the same time ---

    1. I don't know what "saladbowl" is. Help?

    2. The reference to Ashadra really left a bad taste in my mouth. I was not active enough at the time "stuff happened" to have first hand knowledge of any of the events, but the aftermath lingered well into my re-emergence into more active, and apparently still does to this day - how many real life years later?

    Behind the character Ashadra is a real person with real feelings - a person who has _left_ the game for good, after two attempts to return and re-engage, because of people not being able to let go of old stuff and allow her to relax and enjoy her time in the game. 

    That sucks.

    Pushed out of a game. Think about it. A game. Game. Not work. Not life. Not school. Game.

    It sucks for her. It sucks for the person behind Logistics (who I have no doubt made more money for IRE than he ever cost them by his helpful nature and nurturing of newcomers). It sucks for so many people who have come and gone.  

    Some people blow through a character and then "Okay, I'll just roll a new one." Some people change class and loyalty at will (sometimes with RP to go along with it, sometimes just doing it....

    Others (and yes, this includes me) are vested in their characters and the RP of their characters, and can't just shed a skin as if it was meaningless to them.

    Yes, I know two people who successfully created new versions of themselves and have been very successful. But they hadn't poured years into their first characters, each was far less than a year - their new decade old characters _are_ them.

    The fact that X years later somebody has to use Ashadra as a "bad example" borders on mean, and it really left a sour taste in my mouth while I was sitting on the button with pocket Aces (but, I digress....).  

    ICly, who holds grudges decades, even hundreds, of years later? Memories fade, facts become fuzzy....

    OOCly, who is so "mean girl" that they have to mess with somebody else, somebody else's game enjoyments a real life year, years, or up to a decade later?

    Really?

    Deborah 






    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


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