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What in the heck happened to the Priest class?
Priest has been isolated into a tiny pocket of playability due to its arbitrary class restrictions.
I understand limiting Devotion with excommunication. There is a solid RP justification.
But Healing? Really? I have been told that I can physically bless people, but the blessing receiver has to be allied to Targossas for it to give a benefit. ((Yet bliss will still work???)) [[Or standing in rites (??)]
This is really too much. You might as well force all new Devotion users to be Targossan.
Look. There are some of us who want to roleplay diverse paths to good. That's how it was supposed to be originally. The garden shouldn't always be accommodating the radicals on this issue. Let it play out in the game. So far, divine intervention on this will only isolate the forces of good into a negligible pocket, especially in terms of class.
I understand limiting Devotion with excommunication. There is a solid RP justification.
But Healing? Really? I have been told that I can physically bless people, but the blessing receiver has to be allied to Targossas for it to give a benefit. ((Yet bliss will still work???)) [[Or standing in rites (??)]
This is really too much. You might as well force all new Devotion users to be Targossan.
Look. There are some of us who want to roleplay diverse paths to good. That's how it was supposed to be originally. The garden shouldn't always be accommodating the radicals on this issue. Let it play out in the game. So far, divine intervention on this will only isolate the forces of good into a negligible pocket, especially in terms of class.
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Now if the buffs worked fine for everyone then every Heretic Cyrene has that constantly intermingles with Ashtani and Mhaldorians AND Hashani gets buffs it kills the class rp entirely.
There's also a mechanical reason, which is that (I think) it used to be the case that back in the day, a little while after autoclass hit, there were priests or priest-alts who'd run around blessing anybody/everybody with things like Earthshields, Endurance blessings, and so on. So it was changed to keep them aligned more closely to a faction.
As I understand it, you can lose Necromancy in a similar fashion (from the Dread whatshisname). Big chunks of Groves too, if enemied by the High Warden of Nature (previously Oakstone).
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
Diversity on the path of good is great. Diversity on the path of good as a Priest whose skills derive from good is a problem, in-game. If you don't mind losing your skills, by all means go ahead; but know that the HELP PRIEST scroll explicitly states Priests are meant to be played within a certain framework. This isn't radical.
As a side-note, we'd love to recall devotion if admin would ever let us. I don't see that happening though.
This sounds familiar.
http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/2811/as-per-announce-2586-how-do-priest-blessings-work-now-with-the-church-gone/p1
Particularly:
Which is just inherited from this change:
And also:
http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/2846/why-is-priest-blessing-effectiveness-written-into-the-game-code/p1
Particularly:
Stories by Jurixe and Stories by Jurixe 2
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The past 200 years has been a gradual (or not so gradual) shift towards more zealous, loyal factions with unique flavour. Most of the playerbase has welcomed the change. And it's not just been happening on Team Good. Part of the purpose (or convenient side effect) of instating the alchemy class (and the Nurazar storyline) allowed forestal abilities to become special and unique to their home faction again. Prior to the Cauda Pavonis appearance you had Sylvans, Druids, and Sentinels all six cities (yes even Mhaldor) traipsing about the woods, ripping up herbs, soul rezzing, and generally being obnoxious special snowflakes.
I remember old priest. I'd say it's changed for the better!
That kind of irks me, but it is what it is for a number of sound, logical reasons.
To OP: I would suggest you definitely look at whether the Devotionist path is going to be something you're sure you want to keep to. I say this not to discourage you, but because you seem nice and excom isn't fun for anyone involved.
Essentially, I agree with the OP. If Priest is going to be so heavily restricted, best to just limit it to Targossas entirely and not waste everyone else' time. The practical ability to play in the "grey area" was long ago extinguished, so let's just drop the pretenses and recall the classes as Mhaldor has.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
Good is Targ. Period. End of discussion.
I am fine with priests being limited outside of Targossas. The game should really empower houses and cities more than it does because otherwise, you might as well not have them.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
I get that we're supposed to be nice, all encompassing people - but it just irks me that giving blessings is sort of an expected commodity. A game mechanism that has lost all of its value.
Perhaps I'm just being overtly grumpy in my priesthood, but let's treat those that can give empowerments, runes, blessings, etc with a little more respect. We're people too.
Do not DM on forums unless you're ok with waiting a couple months!
Blessers should be seen, not heard. Now get to blessing!
This is my way of showing affection towards our resident blessers. I am also not a very good role-model.
This would get so annoying. At least people only ask me for proofreading help and I can choose whether to use the blue pen ("Looks good!" +2 corrections) or the red pen ("It stinks!" + 20 corrections).
I have to say as a character, Aldair is all about recalling devotion to Targossas and saving ourselves the headache of stretching already thin "Good" resources to deal with people that are just there for the free donuts.
As a player though, I really like that devotion isn't restricted to Targossas. Good as an ideology isn't like Evil. Evil has a God. What Sartan says Evil is, that is what Evil is. If someone comes along and says "No, Evil is actually this" and it isn't Sartan (or Shaitan or whatever) then they are factually wrong. Simple as that.
Good isn't like that. There isn't a divine of Good. No divine claims Good as their realm. No divine actually defines what Good is. It simply is. Aurora and Deucalion are the authorities on Good and saying what actions best serve Good and what actions don't and their realms are all ideologies that directly tie to best supporting Good but they aren't actually Good themselves. They serve Good just the same as the rest of us. Of course, they are better at it
I get that this isn't necessarily universally understood by all the Targossian characters but that doesn't make it less true. Which adds to what makes Good interesting.
Aurora can come along and say that Good is actually all about creative expression through mural painting and while some will say "Okay! Let's paint!" others will say "Wait, no, Good is actually the eternal and immutable force that blah blah blah". And those others would actually be the ones that were right.
While it really doesn't make sense for characters outside of Mhaldor to claim to serve Evil since Evil (Lord Sartan) said "All that serve Evil, get thee to Mhaldor" it does actually make sense for people outside of Targossas to be able to claim that they serve Good. Targossian characters, naturally, will pitch a fit because we like to see ourselves as this tiny island of sane people which naturally makes us special but the fact remains it is quite possible to serve Good outside of Targossas. Whether intentionally or not!
As a player, I absolutely love the nuance that comes with Good. It is, frankly, far far more interesting to me than any of the other ideologies because, while those who follow Good aren't necessarily all that great at it all the time, it actually makes the most sense for how rational beings would actually act. The ideals that an actual rational society might be built upon if the beings of that society actually didn't know that the entire world couldn't be destroyed and the things they're killing aren't controlled by computers
I love that it is not a black and white situation and that I can play my character in a way where she can be flat out wrong about some of the things she says and does but there is room for her to grow as she actually comes to better understand what Good really is. And I love that people outside of Targossas can wield Devotion because - while I know there are other reasons why it is this way - it actually helps foster this character growth.
Good characters should be asking themselves "But WHY do the Bloodsworn allow these heathens to wield our super special gifts? We are the bestest and greatest and they are like, eating cake and crap over there while we're in the trenches!" It really makes it all far more interesting than it would otherwise be. And if we are honest, some of the characters that have really embraced Devotion and the Diaspora represent Good far better than some of the people in Targossas!
In any event, as a player I like how it's set up. It adds much more flavor to Good and is a constant reminder that Good transcends Targossas.
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
This is interesting to me. It annoys me far more when people make a bit of small talk because they want something. Then, I have to do the stop and chat AND give them the thing they want.
EDIT: honestly the most polite way to go about this sort of thing is to ask on CT, and if no one responds... if you can live without whatever the bennie is for the time being, don't single people out and ask them directly.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
The gradual move toward stronger control of factional classes, combined with Excom/Anath getting harsher and harsher in terms of penalties (Originally they just stopped daily regen, now they stop regaining Devo/Essence from any source, and Priests/Apostates can't even use most of Apostasy/Spirituality once they hit 0) has made it beyond clear that the Garden's intention is that these classes should be completely unplayable if you step out of line, which means your very ability to play the game hangs in the balance. The only way to play like that is to walk on eggshells every day, and even then it's a toss up. I don't know how Shirszae's avoided Anathema for so long, but Wessux tried hard to stay in Mhaldor's good graces, and still wound up Anathema'd with no explanation given. My own excommunication came about because I knew as a character with strong convictions, eventually I would piss someone off and it would happen, so I figured I should go out on my own terms. (And continued to play Paladin without Devo for another 6 months until politics forced me to change. It was fun, in an underdog, "hard-mode" kind of way, but I don't recommend it.)
Yes, the game currently affords you the -ability- to play these classes outside their respective cities, but I think that's vestigial at this point. Doing so means you're playing a game of Russian roulette with your class skills every single day. Everyone's number comes up eventually. Everyone makes a dumb decision at some point. And in this case, that dumb decision leaves you with a choice of class changing or leaving the game. That's just not a good decision to give players, especially new ones that don't quite understand what they're getting into. Our hardened veterans will shell out for a new class and soldier on, but I've seen a lot of new and mid-tier players pick these classes, but don't want to play in Shallam/Targossas, and when they find out what playing outside of those cities means and don't have the time or money to switch class or start a new character, we lose those players.
I'm not bitter about this, I have supported Shallam/Targossas asserting strong control over Devotion, because it makes sense and it's good for the game. As far back as the "Great Excommunication", even while I was preaching against Rho/Silas as a character, I completely supported the move as a player. But it's time to call a spade a spade. In the past, it was reasonable to play Devotionals outside of Shallam, but that's just not the case anymore. The risks are too great, the rewards are too little, and the game's atmosphere is completely different from what it used to be. It's just time to embrace the modern era and lie in the bed we've made.
So again, I think it should be to the players to determine whether they want to risk it.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
It seems FUN to RP a priest trying to explore an alternative path. No, I'm not talking getting drunk and handing out shields to enemies. I mean hardcore, philosophical and even metaphysical exploration into what Good is and even what Devotion is. Good is immutable, but must the paths also be? Can we have open debate? Can we have alternative, parallel paths to the same goal? This question is as important for the players as it is for the Garden.
A lot of Cyrenian Devotion-users, as Aerek has mentioned, have experienced difficulties. Most have abandoned their class due to not the impact of excommunication but due to the limited worthwhile RP one can have while excommunicated. Is this really worth it? Has this enriched the class? Has this expanded roleplay?
And, for a roleplaying game, I can't believe so many of you want the Garden to restrict things so much. It makes the game incredibly dull when the players INSIST that the skills only work in accordance with an in-game political agenda.
Excommunication must exist solely for roleplaying possibilities, yes ? Why can't the Deacon just boot people from the class? That may solve the issue more effectively if that's the route you want to take.
One last thing - I don't see how restricting Healing is ICly justifiable. Can someone explain? Devotion comes from the divine themselves, I understand. But Priests channel elements to cast blessings. Clearly, though, Healing has been restricted since at least 2007. So boo hoo for me, but I'd love an IC argument for this.
Blujixapug's observations regarding the reasoning is interesting. I had no idea they were that strong.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."