The Math of Stacking

edited February 2015 in Shaman
I understand the basic concept of affliction stacking, but it seems to work wrong for me in practice. Can anyone spot an error in this for me?

0.0 paralyse

0.0 paralysis cured

0.9 paralyse

1.5 paralysis cured

1.8 haemophilia

2.7 paralyse

3.0 paralysis cured

3.6 paralyse

4.3 impatience

4.5 paralysis cured

5.2 paralyse

6.0 paralysis cured

6.1 swiftcurse

7.0 paralyse

7.5 paralysis cured

7.9 asthma

8.8 paralyse

9.0 paralysis cured

9.9 paralyse

10.5 paralysis cured

10.8 paralyse

11.7 anorexia/slickness


I've tested it. My test subjects (many thanks to Ast, Xinna, Wintor and all the others I lured into my schemes) all managed to cure out. Now, aside from developing a hatred for tree tattoo, I can't figure out how I messed up. Last time I tested it on someone who didn't have focus or tree tattoo or passive curing, she ended up with Anorexia, Asthma, Slickness, and Paralysis. Thanks in advance.


  • Well, the first thing to do would be to look at a log and see what cures they actually used at what times. For example, did they actually eat bloodroot on every herb balance, or did they prioritise impatience or asthma and eat kelp or goldenseal at some point? Posting a log would make it easier for people to help with spotting that kind of thing.

    Is 1.5s correct for herb balance? I always think of it as 1.4, but I'm never sure if I'm just making that up and never get around to testing. Also, is swiftcurse really .9s, same as curse, these days? This is more just curiosity on my part; I know it's changed since the last time I looked at all closely at shaman, and I haven't kept up all that well. The common theme with those last two, though, is make sure the times you're assuming are correct; tenths of seconds clearly make a difference.
  • edited February 2015
    Your math is fine, more or less.

    As Eld said, people will switch priorities occasionally which means that although in most situations they will prioritise paralysis, sometimes they will cure impatience or asthma instead. This generally is only a problem if they also cure something by focusing or smoking afterwards, otherwise it can be useful as they are still paralysed.

    Also important to note a hefty amount of classes have access to the fitness skill, which cures asthma and is only stopped by weariness. These classes are: Blademaster, Runewarden, Infernal, Paladin, Sentinel, Druid, Monk. Serpents also have shrugging, which is basically a second tree tattoo that is also only stopped by weariness. Furthermore, many classes have passive curing: Paladins, Priests, Runewardens, Druids, Sylvans and Bards all have access to a passive curing of one form or another, some of which you can see when they happen and some of which you can't. These tend to prioritise voyria over anything else, so if that's a problem stick voyria before going for a lock.

  • Against me, you sometimes skipped a paralyse, and sometimes I treed a vital affliction that you never reafflicted.

    I was also wondering what Eld asked. Is swiftcurse (putting the defense up, that is) really .9 seconds? You seemed to pause for longer to do that. If it -is- that fast, you may not have been attacking as fast as possible when you stop to swiftcurse.

    But mostly I think you have already named your problem: tree. The expert diagnoser trait could help you determine what tree cures to better reafflict it. Otherwise, I already suggested using relapse to try to speed up your pace against tree.

  • edited February 2015

    This is not an advertising ploy, it's just meant to answer your question in the best way possible, particularly since you mentioned math (which is exactly what is required for "perfect" stacking) in a game where tracking uncertainty is a common challenge.

    Check out the tutorial/scripting section of the Godzilla link in my sig.  The information there is still 100% relevant regardless of whether or not you're actually using a tracking system (the entire system is designed to think and act like a perfect player would).

    You'll also want to look into using expert diagnose and add giveaways/checks to eliminate/minimize uncertainty while stacking, and you'll also want to learn how to stagger afflictions so that you avoid needlessly stacking same-herb cures (building uncertainty) where practical.  This is also extremely useful for figuring out where that pesky tree tattoo went.  Learn when/why to use expert Diagnose and how to get the most out of it (you can diagnose a lot more than one affliction at a time if you use it correctly).

    It is without a doubt one of the most complex concepts in the game, but the result is insanely fast and accurate stacking, and is totally worth the learning curve.
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