Should all classes have some multi-target combat ability?

edited January 2015 in The Matsuhama Arena
I've raised the issue before primarily about Magi, but it's probably something that can benefit anyone. Combat is primarily balanced around 1v1, but individual duels are a fraction of all combat. I'm talking about the illustrious gank. 2v1, 5v2, etc.
obviously a person can't have defensive skills to protect against more than one opponent. What I'm talking about are offensive attacks capable of chaining between multiple enemies.

Essentially you'd have a copy of a single target skill, but split between two targets at a slightly higher balance cost. Locking classes wouldnt be able to keep up the necessary pressure on 2 opponents (shamans cursing with both hands, lol) but prep classes like Knights, monks, bm, and forestals are fighters. And nothing says martial prowess like dropping a room full of bad guys with your fists of fury.

The other benefit is that group melee encounters have more interesting dynamics, hopefully further encouraging it over ranging.
tl;dr - can everyone please be Bruce Lee
I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.


  • How would these differ from abilities that already affect entire rooms?
  • I suggest this mainly to test the waters. Achaea is clearly not beyond evolution. These abilities would confer no additional benefit in 1v1 combat, since they take longer balance and do the same thing as the other skill.

    Some examples
    Alchemist: Formulations, multi-person wracking or up to two tempers. (or nothing since they're very strong 1v1)
    Apostate: Pretty blue eyes - one blue this way, one blue that way.
    Bard: Some deft positioning to put one opponent between them and the other, preventing them from attacking temporarily (how 2v1's work IRL)
    Blademaster: I just picture a Samurai arc slashing 3 people's legs at once
    Druid: Can hydra heads already do this?
    Knights: various double strike abilities depending on spec
    Jester: already has web/conc. I suppose Doublefling at an increased balance wouldn't be the worst, maybe with a cooldown or require Devil first.
    Magi: Doublestaffstrike - prep 2 opponents at once (not two limbs on the same person)
    Monk: *insert bruce lee noises*
    Occultist: (1v1 powerhouse, probably doesn't need anything), maybe Doublefling requiring Devil up
    Priest: idk what these even do..
    Sentinel: Ricochet - axe hits up to one other target before returning
    Serpent: something assassiny, like a double-pinshot, two arrows at once (evade pretty much has them covered. lock one person at a time quickly) Maybe doublebackstab but with reduced damage
    Shaman: Ability to finger two people at once? (require a spirit bound)
    Sylvan: I am Groot.

    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • Vesios said:
    How would these differ from abilities that already affect entire rooms?
    Those tend to supplement an approach. These are multi-target forms of a class's primary attack, enough to theoretically prep 2 enemies at once. Realistically they'll still have their own defense overwhelmed by two opponents; this simply enables a counter attack faster than hitting both individually.
    In other words, instead of 2.5 balance + 2.5 balance, you hit both on a 3.5 balance, saving a total of 1.5 seconds.

    At worst you'd see groups overwhelming each other in melee with multi-person attacks, but no particular different than the current mantra of bursting down one person at a time with damage, which would probably still be the norm unless you had a bunch of apostates going cross-eyed together in a circle.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • edited January 2015
    Would the ability include some sort of check to prevent more than two people from "double-hitting" a target?  

    Like, Kayeil and Madelyne are fighting Jhui, Mizik and Dunn.  Kayeil is targeting Jhui and Mizik (because they called her a hoarder).  Madelyne is targeting Jhui and Mizik.  All three of them are hitting Kayeil and Madelyne (because they can).  Bad, but then they order their entourages to sit on Ashtan.  The city is reduced to rubble and everyone moves to Cyrene.  The end.    

    I like what I think you're going for here (to somehow make it feasible for small groups or individuals to fare better in "ganks"), although I really have no clue how feasible it is, but would be important not to have it turn out to be even more of an advantage for the guys who already have the advantage, because of numbers, skill, or both.  If it were totally legit, you probably wouldn't even want/need a balance penalty though, since that just seems to make it almost pointless.  
  • The balance penalty or reduced damage are probably what would dissuade Mizik and Jhui from splitting their damage. They could focus damage on one target faster, which is still smart since dead people have no offense and can't doublehangedman them or whatever. 

    If Jhui and mizik stick 25% of your health in a direct attack on 3s balance. Then in 3 seconds they can Burst you down single target. 
    If they deal 20% to each in a split ability on 4.5 balance, they won't deal the killing blow on you both until 9 seconds. 
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • I meant that with three of them (Jhui, Mizik and Dunn), and just two opponents, all three of them could be hitting both targets, unless there was some sort of "check" to prevent it.  I guess the other question is "can you make it reasonable without making it useless"?
  • Well that's my point. If you have more than your enemy it will be more efficient to focus a target for damage. But one person can rarely out damage two, so if you're outnumbered, being able to prep 2 people can mean breaking an arm and slowing their offense long enough to focus on the main target's limbs. 
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • About the only time I'd consider splitting my doubleslash between two targets is if they had both just hit a totem and were asleep without kola.

    Any other time it would absolutely be more effective to target one person and let the other one just have the freedom to attack me. If I'm prepping limbs against two opponents whose damage I can't tank it's going to be with a lot of moving in and out of the room, so it's still the better option to target one of them and get to the point where I can execute a kill sooner and bring the fight down to 1v1.
  • Probably, but the easiest one to kill probably isn't doing the most damage to you either. 
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • Let's not balance achaea around group combat please. Lusternia does this, and combat over there is pretty shitty.
  • I'm talking about making it more interesting. Even the moves themselves. They may not even be cost efficient but that doesn't mean monks doing jumping split-kicks wouldn't be badass. 
    IMO I'd like to see a Tekura rework with different specs. I imagine there are (or were) as many monks as Knights? You'd have a style emphasizing throws, a flashier style, BM kinda stole pressure points, etc
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • Jesus, let's not add more AoE skills than already exist.  Raid defense is hard enough with just concussion/web/dust bombs and the occasional friendly fire holobombing incident.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • Yeah it's not aoe
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
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