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Standardized weapons/armour - nondecay and resetting now?

Just thinking - 

Now that weapons are standardized as far as statistics go, would it not make sense that for the same price as anything else, one should be able to nondecay and customize a stock weapon? Ultimately, you're locking yourself into the meager stats at a cost of 150cr (much less than a lvl 1 arte weapon), have a customizeable platform that won't decay as well as a resetting weapon to prevent loss. 

It will gain you no benefit, as it's not like the days of old where you had the possibility of non-decaying a suit of 120/107 fullplate or a 243 speed rapier as a knight. All this would do for someone is:

1) Give them the option to further customize that weapon
2) Take away the stress of having a weapon decay after 60 - 120 days and having to purchase a new one
3) Allow them to better create their systems by using the same ID number for tracking/utility in their scripts

OH...but what about forging, won't that make it nearly useless?

I don't believe so, erroneous voice in my head. Mainly because I highly doubt there is a majority of the player base that -would- pay 150 credits to custom/nondecay/resetting a stock weapon...most would just pump out 300cr+ for arte weapons as it were, if that was the case. But, those that do would be locking themselves into that weapon for quite some time. Think also that it's not able to be traded in like a normal artefact weapon, so if they class change it's not like they're getting a benefit back from it (which will deter plenty of people from doing it to begin with).

Thoughts, considerations, additions or subtractions. No multiplication and don't derail the thread. No priest talk.
AradorTreyFlorentinoAustereAtalkezErnamAntidas
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Comments

  • KrossKross Member Posts: 779
    Addition:

    Someone just brought up augmenting as a viable reason not to allow resetting on weapons (Giving you endless augmentations if it's destroyed).

    Ultimately, I don't think it'd be entirely too difficult to add an exception into augmenting weapons/armour that it can't be done to non-decay/resetting things (like artes anyhow).
    Trey
  • KrossKross Member Posts: 779
    Sena said:
    Already been denied, presumably to keep everyone buying forged equipment.

    Considering how expensive some high-end descriptors can be (fullplate can get up to 20-30 credits worth of comms), it makes some sense.
    Yeah, and I can see why that would be important to continue the gold-sink the way it's intended, and I know this will detract from that. But my original point for this remains: I highly doubt people will invest 150cr into that fullplate with high-end descriptors, just to turn around and customize it further (erasing the descriptors, essentially), as well as the option of class changing in the future and not being able to use it.

    Until multiclass comes out >.>
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,797 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Unrelated (I know, man, I'll keep it brief, it's semi-related) if we can't make armor non-decay, for god's sake make Fullplate cost what Fieldplate used to. There's no reason for a BASE item to cost more than 11-12k in materials without descriptors now that it's not non-decay anymore.

    TharvisTaelRispok
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Trey said:
    Unrelated (I know, man, I'll keep it brief, it's semi-related) if we can't make armor non-decay, for god's sake make Fullplate cost what Fieldplate used to. There's no reason for a BASE item to cost more than 11-12k in materials without descriptors now that it's not non-decay anymore.
    You must be getting a pretty sweet discount on your steel because now that you can hardly find steel under 200 gold (usually I have to pay 300) I pay between 20k and 35k for a set.

    I've been cranking them out for novices because muh rank but it's drilled a huge hole in my wallet.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Addama said:
    Trey said:
    Unrelated (I know, man, I'll keep it brief, it's semi-related) if we can't make armor non-decay, for god's sake make Fullplate cost what Fieldplate used to. There's no reason for a BASE item to cost more than 11-12k in materials without descriptors now that it's not non-decay anymore.
    You must be getting a pretty sweet discount on your steel because now that you can hardly find steel under 200 gold (usually I have to pay 300) I pay between 20k and 35k for a set.

    I've been cranking them out for novices because muh rank but it's drilled a huge hole in my wallet.
    @Addama, don't make fullplate for novices with those prices. Make them splintmail or something
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    MelodieMorthif
  • KendrickKendrick Member Posts: 57 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I really hope they at least let us add nondecay/resetting to armour. I was saving my class customisation and now I lost the chance. :(
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,265 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I would not mind if more options for weapon customisation were added, but I really don't think they should allow weapons to me made non-decay. Their faster decay times are pretty much intentional with the new forging system. People can either bypass this with arties, or not. I don't see the need for a middle road at all. 


    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Tael
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited January 2015
    They need to give the Treys of the world (and anyone else who was trans forging) a token that allows them to request a single free customisation, and get resetting for 50 credits (if they hadn't already done so).  In short, token that entitles them to do things the old way (i.e. the way things had always been up until just a few weeks ago), just once.  

    It's really, really unusual that they didn't do this already.  I was lucky I'd done resetting on a set of fullplate.  I never did my free customisation but I don't think that means as much to me as it does to a lot of other people, at least not on armour.  In fact, that seems to be a huge factor as to why so many people got blindsided here - because they never felt they had the perfect description, or the perfect set of armour to apply it to.  Give these people a break.  

    As so many have noted already, non-decay/resetting in general has been very firmly denied, but what you can do is complain (loudly) if the material prices are too insane.  Achaeans kind of suck at this, frankly.  I don't know why.  The other IRE players swiftly and loudly shut down any attempt to take away goodies/charge overly insane prices.  In this case, Sarapis has even conceded from the get-go that the prices may need to come down, so keep that in mind, and look out for your financial best interests for once if the prices are really insane.  
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Now that forging is a trade skill, it needs to be something reliable, and you're not going to have a reliable source of trade if everybody non-decays their armour/weapons.  They're more like a consumable commodity this way, making it so that forgers have work.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Poor Kross is probably going to get like 5 pages of people repeating "this has been denied"/"this is the whole point of the changes".  I feel bad for him already.  
    Addama
  • KrossKross Member Posts: 779
    Don't feel bad for me. I've already made the point a few times that I highly doubt 'everybody' will non-decay their armour and weapons. If that was the case, a lot of them would just go about buying arte weapons in the first place. 

    Alas, no one pays attention to that part, and they just repeat themselves over and over again about how forging would be pointless, despite the fact that it'd still be a money sink (to forge the weapon/armour in the first place) to have it non-decayed, and then the cost of it becoming useless if they class change or what have you as an incentive -not- to non-decay it to begin with.

    All fair points though.
    AustereAtalkezAradorTharvis
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,797 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jules said:
    They need to give the Treys of the world (and anyone else who was trans forging) a token that allows them to request a single free customisation, and get resetting for 50 credits (if they hadn't already done so).  In short, token that entitles them to do things the old way (i.e. the way things had always been up until just a few weeks ago), just once.   
    As cool as that would be for people like Kendrick and myself, @Tecton basically already shot down that and every workaround I could come up for it. That's not to say he couldn't change his mind, but at this point it seems doubtful.

    JulesSarapis
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    I really hope he does.  Of all the things they made allowances for with the big changes, this really does seem like a big deal.  It's really almost a bit sneaky not to, because of what I mentioned about people delaying until they had the perfect description and perfect set of armour.  
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,048 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I've never been a fan of restricting things like this anyway.

    If I can make a shirt resetting and non-decay, why I can't I pay the same price (or more!) to make my armour resetting and non-decay?

    Just an odd restriction, imo.



    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:

    I've never been a fan of restricting things like this anyway.

    If I can make a shirt resetting and non-decay, why I can't I pay the same price (or more!) to make my armour resetting and non-decay?

    Just an odd restriction, imo.

    I don't think it's odd, I mean they added all these neat descriptors to armor and they all have the same stats anyway. Didn't they say they were doing Artie Armor?

    Someone said something about it before I just don't remember right now but if they do make artie armor you will basically have wasted the credits getting resetting and description.
    Shirszae
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,048 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    How is that any different than buying an artie, trading it in, and buying it again? Being wasteful helps Achaea make profits. Don't be selfish.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    KlendathuAchimrst
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited January 2015
    In terms of price, artie armour is probably going to be a world away from what someone would pay to make armour custom and resetting if it were allowed, even if they were paying for "normal" resetting, which would have to include non-decay.  It would include all kinds of armour too, because if we weren't trying to make forging more viable, the standardized stats would definitely make everyone's armour a candidate for this.

    The prices for decaying armour are (apparently) a bit insane right now, but once that gets ironed out (which hopefully it does) a big reason people would do it would be sheer convenience.  In that sense, it's probably good that we're being pushed to just buy it.  If things end up the way they should it will be widely available anyway (because people are buying it) and hopefully basic sets won't break the bank, either, after some adjustments in price of materials.

    The thing that probably really will suck for some people, is that you can generally get away with things in a custom description that you absolutely can't when you're working through the (apparently in every game) notoriously strict craft approval system.  Some of you may think that only includes "horrible" descriptions, but I doubt it, and those people will be out of luck.  The only way they'll be able to do that now will be to buy artifact armour and THEN pay to customize it.  For a knight, who would have to buy the most expensive artie armour, ouch... In fact, it may be mainly monks and bards who do so if the price guide below is at all indicative of what we can expect.  I say that with the hope that artie armour actually will NOT be a must have item.  Nice, but not a gotta have it.  

    Here's Imperian's prices on artie armour for a possible price reference.  Even once they standardize like we have (which I think they're planning on), this stuff probably won't be awesome enough to be a must have artifact over there.


    19.10.6 Armour Artifacts
    We currently have only basic armour artifacts. All items will reset to your
    inventory and will not decay over time. Be sure to read HELP ARMOUR and do not
    purchase armour that your class cannot wear.
    Armour Type         Cut/Blunt     Cost
    --------------------------------------------------
    Leather             35/25         400 Credits
    Ringmail            43/30         500 Credits
    Scalemail           55/44         600 Credits
    Chainmail           65/55         700 Credits
    Splintmail          70/65         800 Credits
    Fieldplate          75/75         900 Credits
    -------------------------------------------------- 



  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Those prices are more likely to make me never buy credits again than to want to buy artefact armour. Charging over double for armour just because of your class seems ridiculous, though I don't know how the armour/stats system works in Imperian. Is it just the same as the one we just got rid of?
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Right now it's pretty much what we just got rid of (but they have artie armour available).  
  • AvtoAvto Member Posts: 102 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    that 75/75 fieldplate would horrendously suck if it had same system as we did. below 80/80 fieldplate I was considering mediocre to trash, 85/85 norm 90/90 above average( fullplate for  high end of course).

    paying 900 credits for below mediocre armor with no other benefit then resetting would be considered scamming by admins :)
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015
    I don't know if anyone has had this idea but...

    What if we had something, say a blade hilt or pommel.

    "Hilt of (cool word) 150cr"
    or
    "(something nifty) pommel 150cr"

    'Attaching this to your weapon of choice will allow you to customize it and will become resetting for the duration of its lifespan. The weapon will decay normally, and once the blade is rendered useless the pommel/hilt will reset to your inventory and may be put on another weapon.
    Be warned however, once crafted into an item it will permanently retain its shape meaning it would be useless to attempt to fit this hilt on any weapon type other than what it was originally crafted for.'

    Basically one free customize token with a reset that still decays, but allows you to instantly slap it onto another weapon and keep your "custom" weapon while keeping the decay market in tact.
    Also as part of the cash grab that is achaea, it can only be used on one type of weapon. So using it on a bastard sword renders it useless to use on any kind of other weapon in the future.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
    ShirszaeRiashainJulesTheris
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I suspect there's a technical reason you can't buy resetting without non-decay, but I'm not sure. However, if it is feasible that would be a decent compromise between the two: you'd get resetting and customised items, but you wouldn't be able to opt out of the forging market entirely so there'd still be the need to spend gold on new weapons and armour.
    Shirszae
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,797 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Antonius said:
    I suspect there's a technical reason you can't buy resetting without non-decay, but I'm not sure. However, if it is feasible that would be a decent compromise between the two: you'd get resetting and customised items, but you wouldn't be able to opt out of the forging market entirely so there'd still be the need to spend gold on new weapons and armour.
    Also similar to something I asked for and was told no.

    Aepas
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Trey said:
    Antonius said:
    I suspect there's a technical reason you can't buy resetting without non-decay, but I'm not sure. However, if it is feasible that would be a decent compromise between the two: you'd get resetting and customised items, but you wouldn't be able to opt out of the forging market entirely so there'd still be the need to spend gold on new weapons and armour.
    Also similar to something I asked for and was told no.
    a shame for sure. I for one have never been against paying for something if I wanted it.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
    Trey
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited January 2015
    Avto said:
    that 75/75 fieldplate would horrendously suck if it had same system as we did. below 80/80 fieldplate I was considering mediocre to trash, 85/85 norm 90/90 above average( fullplate for  high end of course).

    paying 900 credits for below mediocre armor with no other benefit then resetting would be considered scamming by admins :)
    You've got to remember that people were forging their asses off to get that armour though.  My full plate is 55/55 right now, so depending on the way armour actually works now (and I hear there are changes to that too), 75/75 is... I don't even know, honestly.  It might not be good enough, might be perfect, and could easily be way too good.  

    Another thing I forgot to mention with the sticker shock on production prices right now.  It seems like there's a good chance those prices could be cut somewhat, especially if they're based on maintaining the massive gold sink that was created by people were pouring into the system to get insane armour and weapons, but I bet it's only going to go down so much - because it should probably be based on what it would have cost to get pretty mediocre/decent weapons (collectively).  But even that's hard to gauge, because people kept moving the benchmarks for "crap", "mediocre", "good" and so forth, by forging their asses off (which is why the forging system was so damned evil).   
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    I'm bracing myself to be a little shocked if they say no to Aepas' idea (which seems to solve everything).  
  • TibithaTibitha Member Posts: 742 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015
    Ignore, I'm a moron
    Jules
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,265 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    55/55 right now means your armour cuts 55% of damage from both blunt and sharp damage. At least from what I understand. I doubt thats how the value in those armours you listed actually works. You yourself said they have the old system, so they probably use the old way of showing protection, in which for example 75/75 did not mean you literally got that percent off damage.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited January 2015
    Yeah, exactly, something like that (Tibitha or Shirszae, heh) - and yes, Shirszae, at first glance my instinct is the same as yours, that 75/75 would probably be waaaay too good, but I know I don't really know the new system, so to me, I just wanted to get the point across that people do need to understand that it's not really going to make sense to do a direct comparison with old stats.  In short, the numbers don't mean what they did... and even when you "convert" to the old numbers, that's apparently not quite right, etc, etc... It's really going to be how the artie armour compares to the new baseline armour in terms of actual performance (which means we'll all be relying on Sena as per usual), and hopefully whatever that is, is "nice", but not tooooo nice.  

    It also seems like it would be smart of them to do a different pricing scheme than Imperian currently has (i.e. not scale so steeply by class), and who knows, that may already be their plan.  
This discussion has been closed.