The Most Important Tip to New Players

Trileobe

       As the title suggest I am about to tell every newbie the most important tip they will ever get while playing Achaea, <Insert Drum Roll Here>........
Be friendly and talk to folks, not too many people were expecting that but it will make the game 10 times more enjoyable. But don't just be sociable to your city, be friendly to everyone you see. Too many times have i seen "your from <insert city name here> and my our cities are enemies." Then they run away, I myself am friendly as can be, being from Targossas I think more cities are my enemy than friend, but even when a Mhaldorian crosses my path we tend to have a 10 minute conversation trying to convert eachother (both fail but we still have some good ol' fashion conversating goin' on.)  which makes the game more interesting. But if I had just said "Oh no a Mhaldorian, they smell funny, and eat rats!!!!" and then proceeded to run away, I would of never made a new friend that if I meet on the battlefield I get to try to impale and have a drink bout it later with them. And plus when people doubt that I am the Friendliest person that ever existed i can just say that I Hail from Targossas and when a Mhaldorian or Ashtani(that sounds odd but guessing it is right) walk by I strike up a friendly conversation with them.

      So now armed with the knowledge that to be successful you need friends, and to get friends you got to conversate with folks. We might see some people staying around a bit longer because they are conversating with folks and making friends instead of hiding in a cave and beating up gnolls by themselves because socializing is scary.

Addama

Is being friendly to people, in general, a good idea?  Yes.

Is roleplaying a Targossian and being friendly to mortal enemies a good idea?  No.

I'm not sure which you're trying to encourage.  I'd suggest that you hit me up in-game and we'll discuss cultural ramifications and such.

Jules

Once they're past level 30 (or even before if they don't really understand the rules), newbies are scared that people are going to rob them.   Also, a lot of us are the sort who sometimes don't know what to say.  I mean, of course we want people to do this, but there are some good reasons it doesn't always happen.  

Kayeil

In a Targossan's case or a devotionist's case, the enemies thing might be a valid thing to bring up since fraternization can get them in big trouble. Depending on how a devotionist or a Targossan tries to address me or speak to me, I will remind them of the fraternization rule  because I don't want to be part of them getting excommunicated (and this is usually the case with novices, the older players are quite aware and don't need reminding or education on it).

Trileobe

I could see where you are coming from on the being friendly to mortal enemies, but I guess I'm just not real good at wording stuff. I do it as more of a sign of respect towards them, I can't due to morale laws and obligations help them in any way shape or form but I also can't ignore them or be rude to them because that just keeps them hiding in Mhaldor thinking Targossians are full of jerks that hates everyone that isn't a member of Targossas. It is a fine line you just have to learn to balance yourself on it at times. And would love to talk to you in game

Jules

He did say that he was trying to convert them, but try telling that to the Deacon!  A little tangent on that note - it's too bad it's not more viable for org enemies who aren't PK gods to actually fight one another without getting themselves into a deep, deep PK hole, because if your conversion attempt fails (which it usually should), a friendly sword to the throat seems like a good way to say "thanks for the talk, see you soon"!

Trileobe

Converting seems to fail 99% of the time but you get used to it, but it is still fun to give it a try. Would be even more fun if i could do as @Jules‌ said and do a little sword to the throat without the fear of Ashtan or Mhaldor hunting me down and stringing me up by my toes, but then again my pk ability starts and stops at pressing random buttons and hoping something woks.

Aodfionn

Jules said:

try telling that to the Deacon! 

Say word?

Keep at it, Trileobe - I think you may still have a bit to learn about Devo-use from an IG standpoint, but I love your attitude and the brass balls required to leap headfirst into trying to convert people!

Also, fwiw - I don't think people realize that the fraternization rule has nothing to do with barring folks from trying to convert the enemy. Just sometimes can come into play when people use 'converting the enemy' as a less than subtle falsehood to justify their actions. 

Jules

That would require a pretty much tectonic shift over here in Achaea (man, that came out kind awesome).  You can already do this in Imperian, largely because XP loss as we'd think of it doesn't exist, and also because there is no infamy - there are many, many other things that encourage people to engage in conflict, but no infamy that encourages people to parse a list and hunt anyone on it until they deeply regret dipping their toes into the PK pool. It may never happen here, and it's not going to happen anytime soon, but just trying to seed the idea that there are ways to bring nearly everyone on board with conflict, and make that aspect of the game less intimidating, which actually tends to make the game more conflict oriented - with the side benefit that you can also add that aspect to your RP if you like (whereas right now PK and RP are probably an ocean apart for all but a select few).  @Aodfionn, As for the Deacon joke, I have no idea how often people do or don't get in trouble - Kayeil mentioned in her post that she feels it necessary to warn people though, and she's not the first person I've seen who feels that way.  My post was partly joke, and partly recognizing that if someone does regularly interact with the enemy, how would a leader actually know what that person is doing?  Answer:  "he *still* won't convert, so I tried to absolve him, but he vivisected me first"  :P     

EDIT:  I very rarely tag people, and I'm having trouble tagging here, but oh well... Your name is even popping up, but when I save, nothing.

Nim

Suggested alternative wording: interact and have fun with other players, even if you don't know them yet?

Trileobe

Almost forgot to respond to this.

Jules said:

 Also, a lot of us are the sort who sometimes don't know what to say. .  

Most of the time I have no idea what to say to a stranger that just strolls by, but i usually just bow, say good evenin' how are you?, honours them to see city and age, and let the conversating go wherever it wants. Talked to one person about wrestling squids in Phereklos the other evenin' because I had nothing better to say and now we talk all the time. But I reckon it is easier for some than it is others, but eventually people get comfortable and start jabbering all the time

Danith

There are several reasons why "converting" someone IC doesn't work well 99% of the time, but the most important one is pretty much never going to change: there's often a cost to the player involved in converting. Yes, not every flip from Good to Evil or Eleusis to Hashan or Cyrene to Targossas requires a class change, but there are definitely some that do. And then there's your investment of time and energy to consider, which a lot of people are (justifiably) hesitant to lose.

The role of a missionary in Achaea could be more fun to play if there were a system in place to influence NPCs, something between the insanity of Lusternia's Influencing system and between the village conquest system in MKO. But then you run into the problem of adding yet another monotonous, repetitive task to complete, and there's not going to be a hard-coded way to debate theology with an NPC.

That isn't to say you shouldn't try, but "failure" in this case has more to do with the game than it does with your own skill or knowledge.

Trileobe

@Danith‌ you opened up a big can of worms that are ripe enough to fish with. But Instead of all that converting by talking to an NPC would be much easier by having a certain faction stand in a city for a certain amount of time and donate money and goods to that NPC's city/village to acquire its loyalty/special benefits for your faction at that city. That makes for some great PvP fighting over control over towns, and make being a Missionary Viable because no matter how hard I try I'm not getting a Mhaldorian to jump boat and risk being hunted down by them (I can't quite remember which Mhaldorian law that is)

Danith

The key is finding a perk or benefit to having a faction on your side that is worth the repetitiveness of having to fight for it... whether that was in a mostly-PK-oriented system or in a "control the village" event a la Lusternia. You'd want it to be a big enough prize that you'd enjoy the process of "winning" it, but not so big that it upsets the balance of the game and/or requires the prize to be back up for grabs every 24 hours. Those are the kinds of systems that, as far as I'm concerned, haven't worked well for IRE in the past.

I actually think it would be neat if this (completely hypothetical, not at all a thing I've even heard considered in the plans for 2015 and beyond) system resulted in mostly cosmetic changes - that could maybe take some of the pressure off of the admin to find a way to make its effects fair to everyone. For instance, maybe NPCs unique to a village or area could start appearing in your city, as if they were visiting landmarks/shrines or participating in the culture of your faction. Maybe certain denizens, if they are on your side, could offer special quests that are a bit more lucrative or generous in the XP they award, or the general stores in your city suddenly started stocking unique items tailored to the areas they are affiliated with. Unfortunately, this solution requires the most concerted effort from the administration and probably the least appealing return on investment for them.

Trileobe

Each contested village has a trait associated with them and if your faction controls that particular village You get get

Example -> Targossas takes control of FishingVillage_abc-001 all Targossas Citizens are granted an increase in fishing

so some have fishing some alchemy etc. makes the reward nice to have but not game breaking if you don't.

and we have gotten off-topic somehow but I don't mind conversating is good for the soul

Addama

Trileobe said:

Each contested village has a trait associated with them and if your faction controls that particular village You get get

Example -> Targossas takes control of FishingVillage_abc-001 all Targossas Citizens are granted an increase in fishing

so some have fishing some alchemy etc. makes the reward nice to have but not game breaking if you don't.

and we have gotten off-topic somehow but I don't mind conversating is good for the soul

Turning IC interaction into a PVE activity is not a really good idea, first and foremost from a balance perspective (big cities win) and secondly because it trivializes the whole art of debate/conversion.

I see where you're going with this, and I like the initiative, but conversion doesn't always have to have a net positive outcome.  You learn a lot more from failures than from successes.

Sarapis

Trileobe said:

       As the title suggest I am about to tell every newbie the most important tip they will ever get while playing Achaea, <Insert Drum Roll Here>........
Be friendly and talk to folks, not too many people were expecting that but it will make the game 10 times more enjoyable. But don't just be sociable to your city, be friendly to everyone you see. Too many times have i seen "your from <insert city name here> and my our cities are enemies." Then they run away, I myself am friendly as can be, being from Targossas I think more cities are my enemy than friend, but even when a Mhaldorian crosses my path we tend to have a 10 minute conversation trying to convert eachother (both fail but we still have some good ol' fashion conversating goin' on.)  which makes the game more interesting. But if I had just said "Oh no a Mhaldorian, they smell funny, and eat rats!!!!" and then proceeded to run away, I would of never made a new friend that if I meet on the battlefield I get to try to impale and have a drink bout it later with them. And plus when people doubt that I am the Friendliest person that ever existed i can just say that I Hail from Targossas and when a Mhaldorian or Ashtani(that sounds odd but guessing it is right) walk by I strike up a friendly conversation with them.

      So now armed with the knowledge that to be successful you need friends, and to get friends you got to conversate with folks. We might see some people staying around a bit longer because they are conversating with folks and making friends instead of hiding in a cave and beating up gnolls by themselves because socializing is scary.

Building social relationships is absolutely the #1 thing that gets people to stay around in multiplayer games of all types. It behooves everyone to be friendly and talk to newbies and vice-versa.

Jeslyn

I'm offering my own tip too.. So I don't have to start a new thread. This coincides with being friendly, which is hard enough as a newbie.

For new players, the most important one is find a mentor that gives a crap about you. Also do not worry about being over the 50 hours point if it gets you a competent mentor. A lot of people, even the older ones, are failing to realize how important the mentor system is in getting people engaged in the game through interaction. Which is why I hate it that it dumps every player over 300 hours into the mentoring system, because then the newbies (who are already unsure about talking to people) are then asking people to mentor them that don't give a shit. The mentor system should only have people that want to mentor new players. 

Also, I know it may be daunting to have to ask an older player to mentor, but ask anyways. Bug the shit out of older players, even if you get crickets or get told to STFU. Most of us are willing to help out; hell, I don't even care if you aren't of my city. I can't even count how many novice targossian and rogue priests and paladins I've helped out. I already know how crappy it is finding a mentor in those classes, I'm definitely not going to turn one away because they "don't fit" in with my Cyrenian lifestyle or I feel like I'm too good for them. Yes, I know some new players don't stay after you mentor them, but that doesn't mean you throw in the towel. 

TLDR: New players find Mentors. Old players start mentoring. Interact on a meaningful basis. Breathe new life into your cities. 

Trileobe

I never really had the problem of getting a bad mentor, while I was in the "Finding the right character" phase i got 3-4 characters in different cities to level 70, Druids do a great job (or did not sure anymore this was when the Trial of Rebirth was in place and Targossas wasn't joinable from the start) of getting you a good mentor, but my favorite mentor was when I tried out being a Shaman (my favorite class but Targossas won't let me in if i'm a shaman) Andraste (I may of butchered his name but this has been a rl year ago)really went above my expectations when teaching me the game. I said I wanted to hunt, he taught me bashing. I said I wanted to pvp and he Tzanta (Sorry if misspelling) me on the spot then explains all the different afflictions and vodun

So tips to finding a mentor don't rush or you'll regret it every step of the way, especially if you're like me and change what you want to do every 5 mintues, pick a few mentors that look right and talk to each one of them so they can help see what you actually want to do. for example as a shaman I decided I wanted to pvp because it was fun, as a druid I would sit in my grove all day playing with grizzlies and talking to other druids, and now as a blademaster I want to do it all and day dream at the same time.

Mentors don't accept a little one just because they ask, talk to them to see if they are a match for you ie they have similar goals as you do

quick edit:
If you don't know how to start off talking to someone about mentoring just start with this it has worked for me every time

tell <insert name> pardon me, I was just wondering if you had the time to talk to me, I am looking into getting a mentor and would love to see if you are a good match for me.

2 things will happen here,
1)-they will talk to you and see you are perfect teacher student combo
2)-you won't match up good and that person will either suggest you talk to a particular person or will send you on your merry way

and always be respectful they don't have to accept you

Vesios

Coming from a youngin's perspective, you want to know one of the scariest things in the entire world when you're just starting out? You're fresh out of the prison, you've just learned how to use HONORS and then you see this little tidbit of information:

<EXTREMELY LONG TITLE, POSSIBLY LATIN> -name of older player- <EXTREMELY LONG TITLE, POSSIBLY LATIN>
He/She is 146 years old. - Bonus points if their age is hidden by the sand of Aeon, because god knows a newbie will know what that is.
He/She is considered to be approximately 8350% of your might.

You wanna know how fast a newbie can be freaked out? They see that, don't know anything about the PK rules, and immediately think even approaching an older player will get them flung into a wall. So they try to stick to the shadows and tread carefully, because apparently they've just entered a world full of demigods and people who will disembowel them with no effort and nary a thought. And on top of that, that might listing has effectively confirmed that they're the bottom rung of the ladder, the lowest on the totem pole, the smallest fish in the pond.

And then a day later they'll leave and never return, because their silence and hesitance in approaching these (rightfully) scary demigods has caused them to play a boring single player game with no goals and no set path for them to take.

If nothing else, I would suggest hiding might listings until newbies lose portals. Not knowing how powerful the people around them are are might actually give some the courage to approach city or housemates, which would help them forge connections and hopefully increase retention.

Trileobe

@Vesios‌
I like the might being shown, when I first honoured someone walking by me with the 8350% of your might i immediately sent that person a tell being incredibly insane and not knowing it and was taught some of the basic conversating skills that i was lacking as a newbie.

But that might just be me, I have a bad habit of trying to talk to whoever comes within hearing range of me

Tesha

@Trileobe welcome to Achaea, and if I have a tip for you, it would be to keep that great attitude of yours. I think you'll make it far in the game! Talking with enemies is definitely fine, it's just how you have to go about it as a Targossian character that's important. You shouldn't casually meet to drink tea and discuss weather and fashion and just be best friends, but meeting to drink tea and try to convert them is fine (which sounds like what you're already doing!). 

Antonius

Surely the most important tip is to stay away from the forums?

Trileobe

@Antonius‌ forums is half the fun, well until they suck you in and you forget Achaea is a game and not just a bunch of forums people come to rage and talk nonsense

and @Tesha‌ I'd happily have Tea with everyone but Ashtanis never want to come over for tea i even offer to meet in Cyrene since that is neutral grounds maybe possibly

Theris

I think that having a friendly attitude toward each other is certainly a good thing for newbies. As @Sarapis‌ said, it keeps people in the game. However, I think that the case changes among players who are more experienced. We like to give newbies a lot of protections from the more frustrating aspects of the game--for example, we forbid PK and theft directed at newbies--and I think that being friendly toward and encouraging friendly behavior from newbies is another way of doing this. As they get used to the game, though, and begin interacting more heavily with more experienced players, I don't think it's a bad thing at all for their character to develop negative attitudes and interactions with players from other factions, because that's what makes factional conflict interesting.

I think that one of the most important things to keep in mind, perhaps not for newbies but for players who want to engage in more interesting RP and inter-player conflict, is that there is a difference between a player and a character. I know that a lot of Mhaldorians understand this well. If a character immediately dislikes you and is hostile toward you because you're a member of a different city or faction, you don't need to take it personally. Rather than interpreting hostility as a personal attack, you can understand it is roleplaying, and recognize that the player behind that character may be a kind, reasonable individual. I think that this goes a long way toward mitigating frustration about negative interactions with other players. If it gets overwhelmingly frustrating, you might try sending an OOC tell to that player to explain your feelings. I've heard of people doing this with very positive results.

Nim

I wish the game had an actual way of OOCly talking to people as a separate means from tells, etc. just to foster IC/OOC separation.

Iocun

Public posts.

Addama

Nim said:

I wish the game had an actual way of OOCly talking to people as a separate means from tells, etc. just to foster IC/OOC separation.

That's kind of what OOC clans are for.  I belong to a few that are explicitly OOC for the sake of combat help.

Although it would be nice if there were a way to conduct explicitly OOC conversations beyond "TELL PERSON //stuff" or forum messaging.  Too often the TELLS get misconstrued as vaguely IC even with the double slashes.

Trileobe

@Nim‌ I usually have a hard time breaking from IC once i get in the mood, that is until i get a problem that i can't keep ic, then simply asking someone if i can speak super insane to them for a moment breaks my immersion and means it's time for a nap. but with that said I know the first week or so that I played I needed more OOC help than IC most of the time but after embracing my class i was shown a ooc clan and they helped me enough to where i rarely have to go ooc anymore

quick edit: forgot what I was trying to say maybe y'all will be able to figure it out without too much of a hassle

Jules

Nim said:

I wish the game had an actual way of OOCly talking to people as a separate means from tells, etc. just to foster IC/OOC separation.

I do too, but I'm a little surprised you don't have crap ton of disagrees yet.  Unless this player base has changed dramatically in their attitude towards this sort of thing (which would be great), there are too many people who would consider that a threat to their immersion (although I don't see it that way), and who would fight that tooth and nail (but I agree, I think it would be great).  It's also another thing Imperian has already.  In short, their PT doesn't kick you when you log out, so it tends to create a very informal, very low commitment clan of sorts.  That said, their demonic circle is having some serious trouble with people behaving very, very badly on their main PT (which they call ring) right now.  

Nim

It's been twelve minutes, so give them time, @Jules! That said, it'd be no different from using (OOC: stuff) or //stuff, but it'd, in my opinion, help segregate IC from OOC, something Achaeans are sometimes bad at...