Forging Tools

Kresslack

So with the changes going live to Tradeskills, I picked up Weaponsmithing and Armoursmithing and have been giving those a go. Gotta say, I really like it. I was thinking though, what with the Hammer of Forging being removed entirely, if it would be possible to have generalised crafting tools for the Forging Tradeskills, that can be purchased in Delos and decay like any other item.

A lot of the tradeskills already use certain basic tools for their craft ( e.g. pots, phials, schematics, needles, etc). What about having a generic hammer and maybe even tongs for forging, that would be required to be on hand in order to operate the forge. Currently it works under the pretense of using the tools already available in the forge, but what smith likes to share tools? They get lost, stolen, or even left to ill-repair, and that can be frustrating!

I think being able to have at the very least hammer and tongs would add a level of impressiveness that some users of other Tradeskills already experience.

Thoughts?

Greys

Its an interesting idea.  Nothing else having you manipulate it kindof like how enchanters have to do?

Kresslack

Greys said:

Its an interesting idea.  Nothing else having you manipulate it kindof like how enchanters have to do?

I've never done anything with enchanting. What do you mean?

Rispok

Not really fond of the idea of adding additional cost. I wouldn't object to those items being sold as just flavor items.

I think what Greys is referring to is how in enchantment you have to like, square the circle, ring bell, draw a pentagon, but you don't actually have to have those items. The only thing you do have to have is a single gold coin, for flip coin.

eta: Also wouldn't object to forging sequences like how enchantment has them, instead of typing FORGE 7 times. But the new flavour text sort of compensates for this already.

Kresslack

Rispok said:

Not really fond of the idea of adding additional cost. I wouldn't object to those items being sold as just flavor items.

I think what Greys is referring to is how in enchantment you have to like, square the circle, ring bell, draw a pentagon, but you don't actually have to have those items. The only thing you do have to have is a single gold coin, for flip coin.

eta: Also wouldn't object to forging sequences like how enchantment has them, instead of typing FORGE 7 times. But the new flavour text sort of compensates for this already.

I'm not saying they have to cost a fortune; they're tools. Pots and the like only cost what, 300 or so gold? That's nothing, but also adds a more immersive aspect to forging.

Jules

My impression is that the big new goodie is the ability to create amazing works of forged art in metal (not unlike blacksmiths in the real world tend to feel about metal, by the way), and that the actual mechanic just doesn't matter all that much, at least not in comparison.  But, if it's easy to do and people like it, why not? 

Trevize

My recommendation is to make a forging skill in each that allows creation of an item - tongs for weaponsmithing and hammer for armoursmithing, each increasing forging speed by a pretty small amount. Use the public ones to make your own, then from there use yours.

Kresslack

Trevize said:

My recommendation is to make a forging skill in each that allows creation of an item - tongs for weaponsmithing and hammer for armoursmithing, each increasing forging speed by a pretty small amount. Use the public ones to make your own, then from there use yours.

There's no need to increase forging speed with these changes; it's all pretty well streamlined and you don't spend nearly as much time forging items as you used to. This was more just a flavour suggestion.

Trey

I don't hate the idea, but I don't know that this would add anything worthwhile to the experience either.

Trevize

Kresslack said:

Trevize said:

My recommendation is to make a forging skill in each that allows creation of an item - tongs for weaponsmithing and hammer for armoursmithing, each increasing forging speed by a pretty small amount. Use the public ones to make your own, then from there use yours.

There's no need to increase forging speed with these changes; it's all pretty well streamlined and you don't spend nearly as much time forging items as you used to. This was more just a flavour suggestion.

Agreed. Wouldn't necessarily have to be a bonus, but if it had one, more people would use it (even if it's a small bonus). Maybe.

Arador

So then you could go svo.doadd("RP Forging") instead of svo.doadd("forge")

Seftin

As an aside from this, any chance of getting some cooler forging lines dependent on what you're forging? (not sure if this is the case already haven't taken new blacksmithing etc). Maybe something about pumping bellows for heat, melting the metals, hammering to shape, dousing in water etc, instead of the generic you hit the metal repeatedly?

Sena

It does seem odd when you're forging something that isn't metal, like a javelin (wood with an obsidian tip) or leather armour.

Antonius

@Seftin: That's already the case, I think. The forging process is totally different (no more refining since stats are identical), with new messages that more accurately reflect a forging process (though not necessarily the correct one for the actual item).

Rispok

I believe the new messages are the same for every item type. Haven't forged in a few days so I could be mistaken.

Trevize

Rispok said:

I believe the new messages are the same for every item type. Haven't forged in a few days so I could be mistaken.

I haven't forged enough to remember what it says, but now I'm picturing some absent-minded, overworked smith shoving leather armour or a wooden buckler in a flame.

Sena

Trevize said:

Rispok said:

I believe the new messages are the same for every item type. Haven't forged in a few days so I could be mistaken.

I haven't forged enough to remember what it says, but now I'm picturing some absent-minded, overworked smith shoving leather armour or a wooden buckler in a flame.

[spoiler]
You estimate that in order to make the javelin (size 1), you will require:
wood        : 3
obsidian    : 1

You light the forge and work the bellows until it is burning hotly.

You place the required materials in the forge, beginning to heat them to the necessary temperature.

You step over to the bellows, bringing the fire to a raging roar as the commodities begin to glow with heat.

Carefully removing the materials, you place them over the anvil and raise your hammer.

You begin pounding the commodities with precision strokes of your hammer, forming them into a rough shape.

With expert skill, you begin to shape the raw materials into the rough semblance of a sleek javelin.

Gripping the partially completed item, you shove it back into the fire, reworking the bellows to ensure proper malleability.

Sweat drips from your brow as you move back to the anvil, continuing to refine the javelin.

As the final shape of the javelin takes form, you quench it in the nearby bucket, the sound of hissing steam overpowering the raging fire.

You move a nimble javelin back to the anvil, tempering it one final time.

With a final strike of the hammer, you finish forging the javelin.
Your eye for detail tells you that a nimble javelin cannot be refined any further, and has reached the maximum level of perfection that may be achieved with it.
[/spoiler]

Rispok

It's Ironwood, duh.

Synbios

Alternatively, @Tecton, @Sarapis, how about a competition for player-submitted forging lines per individual item? It would not be dissimilar to a previous contest on lesson learning lines for some of the miniskills that used to have 'You teach the xth segment in Philosophy.'

Kresslack

Synbios said:

Alternatively, @Tecton, @Sarapis, how about a competition for player-submitted forging lines per individual item? It would not be dissimilar to a previous contest on lesson learning lines for some of the miniskills that used to have 'You teach the xth segment in Philosophy.'

Sounds like a separate suggestion. In any case, someone has already started putting together a list of description lines per descriptor.

Amarillys

Kresslack said:

Synbios said:

Alternatively, @Tecton, @Sarapis, how about a competition for player-submitted forging lines per individual item? It would not be dissimilar to a previous contest on lesson learning lines for some of the miniskills that used to have 'You teach the xth segment in Philosophy.'

Sounds like a separate suggestion. In any case, someone has already started putting together a list of description lines per descriptor.

Think he means more like the lines during the forging process so things like leather and wood are not forged all in the same way mail and hammers are.

Kresslack

Amarillys said:

Kresslack said:

Synbios said:

Alternatively, @Tecton, @Sarapis, how about a competition for player-submitted forging lines per individual item? It would not be dissimilar to a previous contest on lesson learning lines for some of the miniskills that used to have 'You teach the xth segment in Philosophy.'

Sounds like a separate suggestion. In any case, someone has already started putting together a list of description lines per descriptor.

Think he means more like the lines during the forging process so things like leather and wood are not forged all in the same way mail and hammers are.

Ah, likely, and that's been mentioned and talked about as well. Hopefully it will change somewhat to make more sense when forging certain items.

Tecton

Kresslack said:

Amarillys said:

Kresslack said:

Synbios said:

Alternatively, @Tecton, @Sarapis, how about a competition for player-submitted forging lines per individual item? It would not be dissimilar to a previous contest on lesson learning lines for some of the miniskills that used to have 'You teach the xth segment in Philosophy.'

Sounds like a separate suggestion. In any case, someone has already started putting together a list of description lines per descriptor.

Think he means more like the lines during the forging process so things like leather and wood are not forged all in the same way mail and hammers are.

Ah, likely, and that's been mentioned and talked about as well. Hopefully it will change somewhat to make more sense when forging certain items.

Yeah, I can definitely see us adding some per-item messages in the forging process! Not sure if/when we'd do an official contest for it, but feel free to make a thread for your ideas and I'll make sure any that get selected get a reward!

Kresslack

For any interested, the thread is here:

http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/3026/forging-lines?new=1

Tael

Tecton said:

Kresslack said:

Amarillys said:

Kresslack said:

Synbios said:

Alternatively, @Tecton, @Sarapis, how about a competition for player-submitted forging lines per individual item? It would not be dissimilar to a previous contest on lesson learning lines for some of the miniskills that used to have 'You teach the xth segment in Philosophy.'

Sounds like a separate suggestion. In any case, someone has already started putting together a list of description lines per descriptor.

Think he means more like the lines during the forging process so things like leather and wood are not forged all in the same way mail and hammers are.

Ah, likely, and that's been mentioned and talked about as well. Hopefully it will change somewhat to make more sense when forging certain items.

Yeah, I can definitely see us adding some per-item messages in the forging process! Not sure if/when we'd do an official contest for it, but feel free to make a thread for your ideas and I'll make sure any that get selected get a reward!

Speaking of contests and venturing a little bit toward a digression from the topic at hand, could we get another contest or similar for the skill learning again? The new skills and tradeskills don't seem to have learning messages. I guess it's not a huge deal with the way learning works now, but I was still pretty disappointed to see that Formulation has the old "You learn the third segment in the lesson on Formulation." bit again.

Maybe it would make more sense to wait until the concoctions skill replacements are done, but it would be nice either way.