Alchemist vs. Forestal RP

Achimrst

This is in response to @Bluef so we don't get off track in the other thread and have a discussion about all this stuffs:

Achimrst said:

Bluef said:

From the origins of Alchemy in Achaea:

Operating within their hall, named the Cauda Pavonis, they profited from trading transmuted minerals and tonics to the elite who could afford them. Over time, however, these curatives were replaced by other more palatable and readily available remedies, and respect for the isolated order began to dwindle. Eventually, the leader of the cabal made the fateful choice to depart from the society that shunned them once and for all. Secretly the Alchemists used their combined talents to displace the Cauda Pavonis to a fold in the ether: the space between planes.

From Nurazar, Part III:

Watching with only the mildest of interest, the scholars of the Cauda Pavonis observed unrest in the forestal community as well. Groves were rendered useless and beasts barely clung to life while Nature's devoteessought answers from every imaginable source.

The Cauda Pavonis would probably not be happy with the allowances in Addama's solution (but they probably aren't happy already about the way certain cities have found work arounds for their decision to allow forestals to be grandfathered in). The difference here is that this is more than just a handful of people we're talking about now. The history of the alchemic class and its rivalry with nature should be supported, not washed away by the tradeskill changes. 

There are no Alchemy organizations that even explore that RP it would just turn into Eleusis ganking shit talking Alchemists when they harvest primes.

Not everything has to end in a fight between Nature and whoever with shitalking and a zillion deathsights. Just saying, if that was the roleplay basis (and I believe I've only noted a small part of it) then it should be supported or explained away by another happening that has far more to do with RP than with the mechanics of trade skills.

^^
Bluef said that anyway,

Ok, I totally agree with you on this, it should definitely be enforced/used in an RP way that doesn't turn everything into Mhashtan lol raiding Eleusis because "Wez R Alchermerst alliez" Ending in...

Oh and Oakstone/Eleusis ganks on Alchemists who gather primes would surely be lol.

Or it should just be done away with as people are already a bit confused about it with grandfathered forestals living in a city that don't get enemied to Oakstone because they live with Alchemists. It's pretty obvious it's an avenue no alchemists want to go down. Not to mention Eleusis just ignores it completely, hell some forestals use Alchemy cures!

Cauda Pavonis is like a denizen organization that doesn't give a shit about us at all, so who really cares what they think. If players took over or even ran the damn thing and had an Alchemist thing similar to Oakstone that would definitely enforce the RP or at least give it some direction, although we already have necromancers for anti-forestal RP.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, what can Alchemists bring to anti-forestal RP that Apostate/Infernal don't already? Not to mention Mhaldor as a whole.

Bluef

I wasn't really suggesting that there would be anti-Forestal RP with the alchemists of the realm; I was stating that it is the precedent upon which some of the alchemist's history, particularly that of the Cauda Pavonis, may be built. I'm not sure you can really say they're anti-Forestal though -- It's more like they felt disrespected, walked away as a result of it, came back in Sapience's hour of need. They didn't really seem to feel any which way about the hurt happening to the plantlife; it was more like detached apathy. 

But if the choice cities made to go alchemist is going to mean anything, then it has to be supported through what happens with trade skills. People maybe shouldn't be able to take both the alchemist and concoction trade skills. Forestals in alchemic cities should potentially bear the burden of doing so. 

I have no real strong positions on any of this. I just don't see the point of going against history and lore willfully just to tend to a few special snowflakes. 

Achimrst

Well it's not really you saying they are anti-forestal it's like their whole RP, can't have forestals because Alchemist or whatever.

Addama

It sounds like the leadership doesn't want to punish their grandfathered forestals for, you know, loyalty.

Yes, it would be a lot cleaner to just spite them, either forcing them to change class or live with no curative trade skill or leave altogether, but there's solutions that don't involve that.

Vayne

There is no enmity between the Cauda Pavonis and the Forestals, the alchemists just find their ways superior and are spiteful. They made the deal with the city-states that they may learn their skills if they forsake concoctionists(a sly business deal if anything). The Cauda Pavonis is not intent on starting a fight, or they would not have cloistered themselves away for centuries focusing on their work.

Of course, this is all a set up to give Mhaldor an alternative to their factionally opposed source of curatives. If anyone can transmute or concoct than that takes some of the tension away. Perhaps it can be said that the practices have become so common place and in demand that others have learned to practice them.

Bluef

I think what's at odds here is those cities who may potentially have persons who can do both. Tecton seems to be indicating that this will be RP-regulated though, meaning that special snowflakes may continue to exist as they always have.