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Dormant Gods with Active Orders: where's our help line?

AntreusAntreus Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
edited November 2014 in The Golden Dais of Creation
Imperian I hear has a system for organization requests which seems to work rather well, but I don't see any such equivalent in this IRE game.

A lot of things - simple in nature - cannot occur because a Patron isn't around, which puts pressure on the active Order whenever they want to do something exemplary on behalf of the Order, pursuant of heir modus operandi. There isn't a system in place that deftly employs credits, gold, or essence that makes these sorts of requests possible or permitted in presently deployed systems like crafting. 

We cannot use themes associated with our Patron in our crafted designs: they are rejected. Nor do we have a means to prove our connection with the Order we are making them, in order to make it permissible to draft them in the first place. There is no mechanism to apply for stationary or ply the Order's heraldric arms on signets, even if the Order commissioned them for this purpose and are used by high rank members.

Some Divine Orders have specific rites, rituals, or procedures that require certain items upon induction: these cannot be granted nor requested if the Patron is dormant, but are necessary for them to partake in the Order instead of just taking up space.

I understand the arguments against organization seals and a limit on order specific items, but I think there are plenty of arguments for them and ways to circumvent any abuse - namely, having to be of a certain rank to use such instruments, and creating a fee for their construction as well as providing a gold sink outside of player's pockets.

I think Orders should be taken seriously in this regard: who patrons the dormant Order? Does the House with a Patron do better than the one who does not, despite equal membership and influence?

Orders in my personal experience are one of the last player retention organizations that characters cling to before they peace out. They can be a very defining part of a character and when all else fails, are the thing that keeps them engaged in the game. Why not take them a bit more seriously for what they can contribute to the RP experience of Achaea?

A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."

A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."

AchimrstKayeilMelodieBluefKerriaShirszaeHerenicusUlrikeMaega
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Comments

  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,978 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    A lot of Orders, and organizations in general if they are prominent enough, usually have a denizen through which such requests are filtered through. For instance, to make requests to Sartan, one usually goes through Scyline (don't quote me on the spelling). Babel has someone in the Conclave of Ashtan, so on and so forth. Usually if you deliver them a letter with your request via the messenger in Delos, it'll get attention. Part of the theological principles of divinity is that prayers and offerings need be made; a deity is only as strong as the number of followers it has. Make enough offerings and enough requests, and you're bound to get someone's attention.

    I think they realized dormant divine were becoming and issue and used the Bal'met event to sort of cull the Garden which seemed to be growing rather overcrowded with dormant divine.

    On the other hand, you could use it as an opportunity for a bit of spinoff roleplay. Your god isn't answering your prayers, and for all intensive purposes seems to have left the Order in mortal hands. Use Flair as an example on how to make the most of an unfortunate situation such as this.


    Antreus
  • AntreusAntreus Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited November 2014
    Let me get a bit more information from you @Kresslack‌ as I have never heard of the Messenger in Delos. I have heard of speaking to denizens loyal to a particular god that are under Their care, which I often sometimes do to no effect.

    Where is the messenger, never heard of giving letters to denizens.

    I am not so sure you can kill death, but Twilight sure has tried.

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."

  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,978 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Should be on the bridge just outside of Delos. Hand them a letter, and they'll ask who to deliver it to. They'll get it to them...for a fee.


    AntreusBluef
  • KerriaKerria The Red LionessMember Posts: 1,120 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
  • AntreusAntreus Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited November 2014
    Kresslack said:

    On the other hand, you could use it as an opportunity for a bit of spinoff roleplay. Your god isn't answering your prayers, and for all intensive purposes seems to have left the Order in mortal hands. Use Flair as an example on how to make the most of an unfortunate situation such as this.
    Hi Kresslack,

    I took this to heart in some way, because it reminded me of the old days when I did just that. I lead the Disciples of Death for some 35 years, but in that time, while I reached the minds of many Achaeas I failed to understand how things operate or how to get the Gardens attention.

    Thoth was Awakened, not by the Disciples that fervently sought him out with focused attention and meditation on his Realm, but by those who wanted the power and prestige of his realm. True story. It actually took me a long time to realize this, that I had been had. You hear that power corrupts, and perfect power absolutely or something like that. I only now know what that really means: a lot of people I have see in Achaea who gain power and prestige - their characters become possessed - like they aren't roleplaying anymore. All I knew was that somehow I felt betrayed, but I didn't know if it was my naivety as a player or the people who betrayed Antreus' good faith, humility, and devoutness.

    While it works for some and they are successful, sometimes it fails miserably, despite one's best efforts.

    But, hindsight is hindsight. I'm trying to find my inner Antreus again, applying everything I've learned, and relive that wonderlust, anything is possible point in my character's life that I think he deserves. But, I also believe the world of Achaea has changed, and I am trying to mete my idealism with the reality of the situation my character finds himself in, while also uses these forums as an outlet to garner the attention that I think these game issues deserve.

    What was fringe is no longer apart of the rug, and what was on the edge of the carpet is now its fringed tassels, easily swept under the rug and forgotten. That's why I'm broaching this topic as if it wasn't meant to live.

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."

    Kerria
  • AntreusAntreus Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Kresslack‌ ;

    Message #1005 Sent by Meletus

    11/12/2:40 Greetings! In regard to issue 70698, unfortunately, we do not

    interfere in the affairs of dormant Divine. Sorry!

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."

    KerriaSherazad
  • KerriaKerria The Red LionessMember Posts: 1,120 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Seems really sad that they don't at least allow a liaison or something of the sort. At least make it worth while to keep a order active.
    BluefAntreusUlrike
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    It's an age-old problem in Achaea, really. But with good allies and some creativity you can still get a lot accomplished on behalf of your organization, @Antreus. As someone already pointed out, @Flair is a great example of this. But I also know for a fact that other divine were assisting him with his ventures from time to time when Babel wasn't awake so perhaps cultivating some kind of working relationship with [email protected] or [email protected] is in order.

    I know it is extremely frustrating, and like you I wish there was some consideration given to the players who have made investments of time (and money) to factionalize themselves with a particular Order, even if the divine is dormant, but sadly I don't think it is high on the Garden's priority list at the moment. I suppose the bright side is that we still have divine to RP about, unlike those who had their Orders suddenly destroyed during the Bal'met event.
    Antreus
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,978 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Antreus said:
    @Kresslack‌ ;

    Message #1005 Sent by Meletus

    11/12/2:40 Greetings! In regard to issue 70698, unfortunately, we do not

    interfere in the affairs of dormant Divine. Sorry!

    That's from an administration angle. Based on what I've seen of Achaea, if a divine is needed around, they find one way or another to make it happen. That doesn't mean there won't be dry spells, however.


    AntreusBluefUlrike
  • AntreusAntreus Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Aerek said:
    Too many dormant orders, too much lore/history/precedent in those orders that Admins would have to be aware of and respect, impossible to know the former God's last will and testament, and too much risk of politics and power plays by players once they realize their god has gone dormant. While I'm not unsympathetic to the plight of dormant orders' RP and operation, Admins would be stepping into a veritable minefield every time they so much as heard a request from a dormant order.

    Players might complain when their order's dead and nothing can be done about it, but they'd straight up revolt if an Admin came in and made the "wrong" move.
    I still think there's room for compromise.

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."

  • AntreusAntreus Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited November 2014
    Is there an unspoken format with how to use [email protected] or [email protected]? It's not exactly the IDEA <insert> request.

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."

  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,005 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aww. That's like the nicest compliment ever.

    Thank you. ^_^
    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
    AntreusUlrike
  • AntreusAntreus Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Deucalion‌ thanks for the sobering response.

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."

    Ulrike
  • DeucalionDeucalion The Garden of the GodsModerator Posts: 135 Immortal
    Antreus said:
    @Deucalion‌ thanks for the sobering response.
    Sure thing. As a mortal, I was in a dormant order for quite a long time, and I understand the frustration. My best advice is to do your own RP as much as you can, and decide if it matters more for your character to stay true to their god, or for you the player to be happy. In my opinion, the latter is more important. 

    Most gods that know they are leaving will "release you from your vows" so you don't have any IC guilt over leaving for another order, and with the exception of maybe Sartan or the Targossas gods (just by the nature of their alignments and teachings), I think it would be entirely reasonable to just make up RP saying that the god told you you were released and free to join a different order. And then even with Targossas, it would be reasonable to go to the other bloodsworn god. 

    We appreciate when you stay true to your characters' vows and story, but we also want you to do what makes you happy as a player. 
    image
    UlrikeTrillianaMaega
  • MannimarMannimar Member Posts: 973
    I know this isn't about orders, but some gods may help you if you approach them ICly with a reasonable request. I know Scarlatti and Phaestus were great about that for me one time. Helped me create a special cloak. Of course you should know a bit about the gods and their roles if you're going to approach them that way.
  • MazzingtonMazzington DetroitMember Posts: 35 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It's particular frustrating in the Order of Artemis, where not only is She dormant but so is our appointed leader, @Penwize‌. It ties our hands in a lot of ways, especially since we have no way of appointing a new leader, and since I somehow never got assigned some privileges despite being a full member.  :(
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's particular frustrating in the Order of Artemis, where not only is She dormant but so is our appointed leader, @Penwize‌. It ties our hands in a lot of ways, especially since we have no way of appointing a new leader, and since I somehow never got assigned some privileges despite being a full member.  :(
    Mhaldor went through a fun interregnum when @Sartan and @Khoraji, then Tyrannus, were simultaneously dormant. Without a means of replacing leadership, we had rogue Sartai flirting with a democratic revolt. Exciting times!
    Mazzington
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Am I the only one who had this experience in a house?
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,125 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Achimrst said:
    Am I the only one who had this experience in a house?
    Definitely not.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    AchimrstMazzingtonBluefUlrike
  • AntreusAntreus Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It's particular frustrating in the Order of Artemis, where not only is She dormant but so is our appointed leader, @Penwize‌. It ties our hands in a lot of ways, especially since we have no way of appointing a new leader, and since I somehow never got assigned some privileges despite being a full member.  :(
    This is a huge wrench in the gears for Orders, and practically no solution. It's the same way that you lose Family clans that aren't set to democratic.

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."

  • AntreusAntreus Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Thanks @Valnurana - you've really helped the Dreamer in me. This is one such example that grants wings!

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."

    Bluef
  • KakotasKakotas Member Posts: 264 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I mean coming from a Highly inactive order divine wise... Even when @Pentharian‌ was gone for long periods of time the hand had access to things. Usually we kept them stored away so when he knew he was leaving for a while we would plan ahead and grab some extra ones or we would store them with an NPC.
    (Blades of Valour): He just has that Synbios Swagger enough said.
    (Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."

    (Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
    (Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
    (Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
  • ZiiZii Member Posts: 616 @ - Epic Achaean
    This brings back memories of Apollyon's order, and Kelandra being the ONLY person able to raise for a time.

    Good times.
    *Animated Signature*

    Kakotas
  • KakotasKakotas Member Posts: 264 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Pentharians it was down to Osis for almost 50 years during a shrine war with Aegis. Then we went through a phase where I was the only one able to raise. Pretty much stayed stable at 1-4 able to raise at any given point.
    (Blades of Valour): He just has that Synbios Swagger enough said.
    (Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."

    (Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
    (Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
    (Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
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