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Language Translation
I was wondering if there are currently any language translation scripts out there yet.
If not, I was considering tinkering with some of Mudlet's (lua's) operating system interface stuff and incorporating an online language translating service (likely Google or Bing).
In general, the idea would be that you could have complete or partial (albeit probably a little laggy) translation of your main mudlet window, or simply certain things like tells and channels translated, for people who are more comfortable using their first language.
Anyone heard of such a thing, or think that might be useful for anyone?
inb4 anyone asks - no I am not considering charging for this XD.
1
Comments
(Google's grasp of linguistics is tenuous at best, even for very simple languages like Latin)
Though I suppose it can still be better than nothing at all, depending of how it's used.
It really depends on the language, but you're definitely right about some.
It really wouldn't be that difficult of a project, so I might just try whipping it up to see how it handles.
Might also try running a few dozen sentences by some bi-lingual volunteers (any volunteers??) to get a bearing on exactly how good / useful something like this would be.
In general, I'm only really shooting for conversation/immersion, not like, real-time translation for combat - just to be clear. (that'd be much better handled with static triggers anyhow)
No problem, I'll proofread French anyday.
Something that could be useful though is being able to look up or translations/definitions of specific words and phrases. For example, right click a word or highlight a phrase and there will be an option in the context menu to check the meaning.
A dictionary / translation system in Mudlet would be quite simple, and probably already exists, but I'll look into it as an alternative if this doesn't pan out well.
@Siduri, and anyone else interested, just go to one or more of the following:
Google Translate (https://translate.google.com/)
Bing Translate (http://www.bing.com/translator/)
Reverso (http://www.reverso.net/text_translation.aspx?lang=EN)
And copy/paste a big chunk of a HISTORY CLT / HT / CT into it, and check out how well it does on every day normal conversation. Maybe a 1-10 out of 10 rating on how well it works would be really great.
Will get my girlfriend on Japanese and Korean (although I am unsure of Mudlet's ability to use non-roman character sets).
Edit to add example-
FRENCH
(I greet you)
(Hi, city)
(Hello ,Yen)
(Hello, Yen)
(Where can I find an acorn?)
(In the elf's demesne)
(Everybody hanged in there?) <- You wish our deaths, I knew it!
(I am killed by a gnoll, but I am back on my /feminine/ foot)
(Do good, and how are you doing, Ernam??)
(Standing on my earth)
(Oh well, they -untranslated- jump the bridge, not of the door)
(It seems you are doing your work correctly)
(Be well, Targossas)
(Bye, Siduri)
(You cannot be here -all- /feminine/ the time)
(We cannot the people having the ability to dismantle the tanks /as in water tanks/, be, apparently)
(Yeah)
(Most of the current /as in electricity/ of 4-5 was promoted to this /French expects a complement here/)
(The orrery is not yet focused, but I have done it by my part)
Dear lord. Was just hoping for a ?/10 rating, but that's even better.
Dreams shattered.
[ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]
The common response seems to be "Why would you ever even say that?" hah
I dated a Palestinian who spoke veeeerry little English when I first met him. He's perfectly fluent now but there were so many days where I'd say something and have to explain myself to him, then he'd still look at me like I was insane.
When I find an English word unknown to me, the Urban Dictionary on line comes very handy.
I do work and teach Legal English, which a very complex matter. Basically, I check four or five different sources before doing anything. I tried google translator for that purpose a couple times, out of curiosity. The result was horrible, both ITA/ENG or ENG/ ITA. I mean, GT's accuracy is lower than 15%. However, the GT came up with some very nice expressions quite surprisingly.
On a personal level, I am against videogame localization. VG are a very useful tool to learn English. That's how I learned it back then: VG and D&D with WH40K as topping. Now italian students are too spoiled.
Anyway, I appreciate your technical effort @ernam, it could be useful to expand the playerbase.
The dictionary thing is doable, the rest... evidently not. Thanks for your inputs!
(We greet)
(Hi, city)
(Be greeted, Jen.)
(Be greeted, Jen!)
(Where do I find an acorn.)
(In the <Pixie> /untranslated/ area)
(Everyone <hang in there>? /untranslated/)
(Mmm hmm.)
(I have just murdered through a gnoll, but is back again on my feet.)
(Doing very well, how are you Ernam?)
(Stand my ground /Not a saying, so it just sounds weird
(Well, they "-did-" /untranslated/ blow the bridge, and not the gate.)
(So looks like you your work done right is)
(Be good, Targossas)
(Bye, Siduri)
(Can here not "-all-" /untranslated/ the time)
(Also can people with the ability to break the tanks, or, apparently)
(Yes ..)
(Most of the current 4-5's is promoted to it)
(Mis)
(Type more, if you want, to to read further. (97% shown))
(more)
(File continued via More)
(The Orrery isn't focused yet, but I done have my part.)
Be greeted! (The biblical form, only used in psalms)
- 2014.10.29 14.03.06 - Yen sagt: "Hallo, Stadt."
Hello, city
- 2014.10.29 14.03.15 - Patria sagt: "Grüße, Yen."
- 2014.10.29 14.03.53 - Tatsuki sagt: "Grüße, Yen!"
Greetings, Yen
- 2014.10.29 14.18.48 - Harag sagt: "Wo finde ich eine Eichel."
Where can I find an acorn.
- 2014.10.29 14.18.59 - Kyttin sagt: "In der Pixie-Bereich."
In the (wrong gender) Pixie area.
- 2014.10.29 14.35.44 - ERNAM sagt: "Jeder hing da drin?"
Did everyone hang (literally) in there?
- 2014.10.29 14.35.48 - Yen sagt: "Mmm hmm."
- 2014.10.29 14.36.06 - Tatsuki sagt: "Ich war gerade von einem Gnoll getötet, aber bin wieder auf meinem
Füße wieder. "
I was (wrong tense) killed by a gnoll, but am again on my (singular) feet again.
- 2014.10.29 14.36.38 - Wilian sagt, "recht gut, wie geht es dir ERNAM ??"
quite good, how are you, ERNAM
- 2014.10.29 14.36.53 - ERNAM sagt: "Stehend meinen Boden."
standing my floor
- 2014.10.29 14.37.10 - Siduri sagt: "Nun, sie -did- sprengen die Brücke, das Tor nicht."
well, they (untranslated) blow up the bridge, not the gate.
- 2014.10.29 14.37.21 - Siduri sagt: "So scheint, wie Sie Ihre Arbeit richtig."
It seems, they their work right. (yes, something's missing)
- 2014.10.29 14.37.42 - Siduri sagt: "Seien Sie gut, Targossas."
Be well (wrong personal form) Targossas
- 2014.10.29 14.37.49 - Yen sagt: "Bye, Siduri."
- 2014.10.29 14.41.42 - ERNAM sagt, "nicht hier sein kann -alle- die Zeit."
can not be here (wrong person) -all- the time
- 2014.10.29 14.42.00 - ERNAM sagt: "Auch können Menschen mit der Fähigkeit, Panzer zerlegen,
entweder, offenbar. "
Also humans can apparently either the ability to take apart tanks. (yes, this makes no sense)
- 2014.10.29 14.44.39 - Caoimhaen sagt: "Yeah .."
- 2014.10.29 15.14.43 - Anedhel sagt: "Die meisten der aktuellen 4-5 lagen die gefördert."
most of the current 4-5 layers the promoted.
- 2014.10.29 15.14.44 - Anedhel sagt: "Mis."
[Geben Sie mehr, wenn Sie weiter zu lesen möchten. (97% gezeigt)]
Give more, if you want to read on.
mehr
[Datei weiterhin über MEHR]
File furthermore about More
- 2014.10.29 15.16.30 - Tigranes sagt: "Der Orrery noch nicht konzentriert, aber ich getan habe meine
Teil. "
-2014/10/29 13:54:44 - zegt Ijen, "Hail."
says Ijen, "Hail." (Hail is not Dutch). (Why isn't it: Ijen says?)
Yen says, "Hi, city." (Hi and city aren't Dutch words) (says is in the right position here)
says Patria, "Greetings, Yen."
says Tatsuki, "Greetings, Yen."
Harag says, "Where do I find an acorn."
says Kyttin, "In the area pixie" (not Dutch and pixie after area?)
says Ernam, "Everyone hanging there?" (opknoping is a noun, not a verb)
says yen, "Mmm hmm." (no capital letter for yen)
Tatsuki says, "I was merely murdered by agnoll, but am back on my feet again."
(agnoll without space, merely is wrong)
Wilian says, "works very well, how are youErnam?"
(not quite the right translation, youErnam without a space, and how are you isn't Dutch)
says Ernam, "Standing my ground." (Standing is not Dutch, or it is a noun meaning good social rank)
Siduri says: "Well, they -- blow- upwards the bridge, the gate not."
(blow up translated as blow upwards, brug being in the wrong position)
says Siduri, "So seems as if you do your work well."
(subject missing)
Siduri says:"Well, become Targossas"
(not quite right)
says yen, "Bye Siduri." (Bye isn't Dutch)
says Ernam, "Can not here -all- the time."
(verb missing)
Google Translate is an absolutely incredible piece of software, one of the best translation engines ever invented, and it's still pretty useless for something like this. Achaea is close to a worst-case scenario for machine translation - abnormal vocabulary, idiosyncratic words and phrases, most things you need translated are single lines (compare things like newspaper articles, where mistranslating a sentence isn't a huge problem since you can piece together the meaning from other sentences with better translation), and it's a completely different genre than what was likely used to train Google Translate (or any other machine translator).
If I were trying to do something like this, I would probably go with keeping the original text and putting in a function such that when you hover over a word, it pulls up an entry from a translation dictionary for the two languages, and then perhaps also shows a Google/Bing translation of the entire sentence too (machine translation isn't a good replacement for the text, but it can be a really helpful supplement). I don't know how doable that would be in Mudlet, but something like that would probably be your best bet.
As an aside, while machine translation systems do still struggle with synonyms to some degree, they're not actually so stupid that they're just trying to translate things word-for-word and then throw those words into something resembling a conventional syntax for the target language. Modern machine translation engines do have a number of features that make the synonym problem (and the idiom problem) significantly less dire than you might naively expect.
(I'm also really, really unsure where you got the idea that Latin is a "very simple language". That is preposterously mistaken.)
P.S.: Also, note that I am French. My language contains exceptions and traps at every corner, unclear word roles (whereas Latin declensions outline immediately the place of the word in the sentence) and all that jazz. To me, it really does seem simpler.
Latin is a language like any other. They may teach it as though it follows "hard-set rules" (though they teach most languages as though they follow hard-set rules, dead languages tend to get that treatment more than others), but it is just as crazy and exception-filled as any other natural language. It is generally the case that every language has about the same degree of complexity and idiosyncracy - it just shows up in different places in the grammar of different languages (which makes sense, since every language needs to be about equally expressive).
Actual syntactic ambiguity in French is not particularly more frequent than in other languages (I speak French too, though I'm not a native speaker). And, if anything, French syntax is pretty regular. Most of the time, grammatical function can be inferred from syntactic position, just like it can be inferred from case morphology in Latin (which, it should be pointed out, has a lot of ambiguity owing to phonologically overlapping case markers).
Both languages have ambiguity, tons of exceptions and traps at every corner, unclear word roles, etc.
Something to bear in mind in these discussions: There is a fun sociolinguistic observation that virtually every group of language speakers either thinks their language is the most logical, with the fewest exceptions or the least logical, with the most exceptions. French is a particularly fun one since it's flipped 180 degrees pretty recently - you don't have to go back far at all to find that the general attitude of the French toward their language was that it was perfectly logical, had no exceptions, and was in fact claimed to be the language most like formal logic (this is one of the reasons for the historical adoption of French in a lot of international organisations).
Additionally, declensions are actually a fairly easy problem to solve computationally. It is, in fact, significantly easier for a computer to deduce grammatical function from case than it is in languages that lack declension, where it has to be infered from syntax. Far from machines failing hard when faced with declension, machines love languages with declension. Morphology is a lot easier to parse than syntax.