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Dragon Class

Ernam
Ernam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
edited October 2014 in The Golden Dais of Creation
How do you feel about the Dragon class, as it currently is?

It is well accepted that it's fantastic for hunting/bashing, so this thread is intended to be focused on essentially every other aspect of the class.

Whatever your stance, please explain why you feel the way you do, and offer positive criticism or feedback!

Dragon Class 59 votes

I love everything about it.
15%
DunnTerraMorthifGreysJovoloSuladanMeradorAkevoGeir 9 votes
I love the bashing but I dislike the class for PVP
11%
MelodieFendoBronislavKayeilTarkorKlendathuKyttin 7 votes
I only dragonform to gare out of crappy Annwyn exits, or to breathstream/bite in raids.
6%
AchillesAntidasHerenicusSeftin 4 votes
I just don't like dragon, at all. It's boring and weak compared to lesserform.
10%
GoggoTyamatAustereAegothErnamUreel 6 votes
My character is not a dragon.
55%
IocunMannimarExelethrilTreySherazadMishgulJonathinAodfionnBlujixapugHalosAepasXithJacen[Deleted User]AlcinaeCaladbolgLacertixTeshaAchimrstIakimen 33 votes
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Comments

  • Ernam
    Ernam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited October 2014
    I just don't like dragon, at all. It's boring and weak compared to lesserform.

    Personally I think the concept of Dragon as it is is really badass, I just think it lacks a little umph.  I was hoping classleads would add some power to the class, but they didn't, and as it stands, I pretty much never dragonform, except to get out of friggin Isaiah/Rheodad, because it's just crap for combat.

    For one thing, I think the loss of illusions was a pretty major hit, as it was a pretty key ability for dragon, and never got compensated like serpent.

    Would like to spur some discussion for ways to make Dragon relevant without being totally overpowered vs non-dragons.
  • Mishgul
    Mishgul Trondheim, NorwayMember Posts: 5,378 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    My character is not a dragon.
    Dragonroar is best group melee attack i have.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    ErnamUlrikeShunsui
  • Atalkez
    Atalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,508 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ernam said:

    Personally I think the concept of Dragon as it is is really badass, I just think it lacks a little umph.  I was hoping classleads would add some power to the class, but they didn't, and as it stands, I pretty much never dragonform, except to get out of friggin Isaiah/Rheodad, because it's just crap for combat.

    For one thing, I think the loss of illusions was a pretty major hit, as it was a pretty key ability for dragon, and never got compensated like serpent.

    Would like to spur some discussion for ways to make Dragon relevant without being totally overpowered vs non-dragons.
    This is entirely untrue. Dragon can be a great 1v1 class, and a lot of options and versatility. Plus a parry bypass makes it an almost easy class to kill with on anyone unartied or under a certain health point.

    It's a great class for combat.




    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Ernam
  • Hasar
    Hasar Member Posts: 795 @ - Epic Achaean
    Dragon has a handful of simple and powerful 1v1 strategies. If they don't work you have to be more creative than I cba to, or go lesser. Pretty fine with that, classes should have limitations. Dragons also awesome in group fighting.

    ErnamMelodieSherazad
  • Terra
    Terra Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited October 2014
    I love everything about it.

    Dragon wasn't compensated for loss of illusions? What. Targeted dragoncurse? Hello?

    Dragon is a solid EZ kill class against squishy or not good opponents, and also a pretty good truelock class.

    And it's great at group combat. Super tanky/good escape ability/good finishers.

    Edit: Most people just have no interest in learning a new class on top of their lesser class, so no one really bothers exploring dragon 1v1.

    Dalran
  • Dunn
    Dunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,324 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I love everything about it.
    Dragon is pretty awesome.

    Add a dirk and a torc and it's insanely fun.


    Ernam
  • Bukariin
    Bukariin Member Posts: 438 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    My character is not a dragon.
    I've never been able to get a character past level 80.  I grind for a couple hours, realize I've only made 5%, give up.
    Mazzington
  • Achilles
    Achilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,634 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I only dragonform to gare out of crappy Annwyn exits, or to breathstream/bite in raids.
    Dragons are very useful in groups.  Tailsweep, faster flying than with mounts, instant block, faster trample than with mounts, blast to destroy lyre, LoS shield break, dragonroar, storm, breathrain, bite, heck even gut is decent damage that bypasses rebounding and track is a nice way to ferry groups around.  

    1v1 can be a bit dumb versus a few classes/artefacted that can tank 3 bites and storm.  Such is the life of a damage class.  Locks are possible since you can delay afflictions with targeted dragoncurse.

    Getting elder dragon and being able to dform in 3 seconds is really nice, makes dragon a lot more enjoyable.  Would recommend making this standard for any dragon and giving elder dragons a level 2 gare akin to atavian wings with more exits.
    image
    Ernam
  • Ernam
    Ernam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I just don't like dragon, at all. It's boring and weak compared to lesserform.
    Terra said:

    Dragon wasn't compensated for loss of illusions? What. Targeted dragoncurse? Hello?

    This happened way before serverside curing / loss of illusions.

    Dragon is a solid EZ kill class against squishy or not good opponents, and also a pretty good truelock class.

    I don't need a class that's great at killing people who are easy to kill.

    And it's great at group combat. Super tanky/good escape ability/good finishers.
    True dat.

    Edit: Most people just have no interest in learning a new class on top of their lesser class, so no one really bothers exploring dragon 1v1.

    This just isn't the case, in my opinion.  I've played every class in the game other than Alchemist, extensively, including (new) dragon.  It has some power, but just not enough.


    Bukariin
  • Atalkez
    Atalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,508 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Any class with a timed, unblockable, parry bypass/psuedo-prone that can truelock and out damage anyone cannot be "underpowered"

    Just wat




    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • Tecton
    Tecton The Garden of the GodsAdministrator Posts: 2,507 Admin
    Just a FYI: It's not intended to be a PVP powerhouse, it's a fantastic PVE reward for doing PVE.

    Sure, it's viable in PVP, but it's not something that'll be balanced against competing in the top eschelons of player vs. player combat. If you find you're more potent as your lesserform class, then you're more than welcome to lesserform and do that.
    AtalkezIocunErnamBukariin
  • Ernam
    Ernam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I just don't like dragon, at all. It's boring and weak compared to lesserform.
    Atalkez said:
    Any class with a timed, unblockable, parry bypass/psuedo-prone that can truelock and out damage anyone cannot be "underpowered"

    Just wat

    Dragon, even with max arties, does relatively low DPS to players.  Almost ignore damage to some classes.
  • Iocun
    Iocun Member Posts: 3,691 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    My character is not a dragon.
    Let's remember that dragon (before dragonclass) was a ridiculous PvP powerhouse and that was accepted by most people to be a rather bad thing. The issue would be even more pronounced now that way more people are dragons.

    Dragon, as it is, is a great reward for bashing. It has awesome utility, awesome bashing power, awesome general survivability, awesome group combat utility, and is perfectly adequate for 1v1 combat.

    No other line of achievement in Achaea comes with a reward comparable to dragon, so all you bashers, XP huggers, and other sorts of F1-smashers are off perfectly well and better stop complaining!
    ErnamHerenicus
  • Karai
    Karai Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    That's disappointing, but makes sense. Just seems like Dragons aren't as powerful as they're made out to be in lore. Anyway. If it's just a PvE reward, I'd like for Dragons to at least be more customizable. Like at Elder Dragon, let us describe ourselves instead of choosing from some list of presets. The amount of effort to reach Dragon and then to get to Elder Dragon (credits or no) is costly and taxing and many want to reach it because it is such a perceived pinnacle of Achaean achievement, but once you're there, we're are all so cookie cutter. Enter/exit msgs are cool, though. Would love to see those available again for non-Dragons. Then again, I just want to be like Yuddhishthira, larger but with vestigial Dragon features like when he impaled Maklak with his 'claws'. Dreams and all that.

    Love hunting in Dragonform. It works really well for those who don't have all the arties. Lesserform as an int-Monk I either waste all my wp in less than an hour or die cause I won't, and then there's the sheer utility. So I can't really complain about how Dragon is now, I'm about 50/50 on being Dragon and lesser.
  • Iocun
    Iocun Member Posts: 3,691 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    My character is not a dragon.
    Karai said:
    That's disappointing, but makes sense. Just seems like Dragons aren't as powerful as they're made out to be in lore.
    I'm not sure if this is truly the case. Isn't it much more that many non-dragon adventurers are simply much more powerful than the average person in lore and thus close to dragon power?

    A dragon is still ridiculously powerful compared to the average inhabitant of Achaea and can easily lay waste to entire villages, but so can an adventurer who has transcended mastery of several combat skills, loaded up with fabled magical artefacts, has reached a level beyond the point where he has to eat or sleep, and can punch a grizzly to death without even really paying attention.
    SuladanNakariAradorYae
  • Karai
    Karai Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited October 2014
    I know many adventurers sans arties who can lay waste to entire villages just with a bit more effort, and some can do it better with only a couple arties. It's all relative. Adventurers have always gone after Dragon because for an adventurer, it's perceived as a massive boon over their class--or on par with it. Not that it's true or not. And that's why I say it, because adventurers are Greater Dragons, not denizens--so to me it just seems odd, but I'm not against it being like it is now. Some things I'd like to see changed but mostly lateral moves. It's perception based on size, being an adventurer, on everything being considered 'puny' to them, on bending the Veil to their whim. It gives the impression that you're more powerful than you really are.
  • Bukariin
    Bukariin Member Posts: 438 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    My character is not a dragon.
    Karai said:
    I know many adventurers sans arties who can lay waste to entire villages just with a bit more effort, and some can do it better with only a couple arties. It's all relative. Adventurers have always gone after Dragon because for an adventurer, it's perceived as a massive boon over their class--or on par with it. Not that it's true or not. And that's why I say it, because adventurers are Greater Dragons, not denizens--so to me it just seems odd, but I'm not against it being like it is now. Some things I'd like to see changed but mostly lateral moves. It's perception based on size, being an adventurer, on everything being considered 'puny' to them, on bending the Veil to their whim. It gives the impression that you're more powerful than you really are.
    I can perceive myself as an animated pony in the shape of a white man but uh what was my point?
    Ulrike
  • Karai
    Karai Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Can't blame you for being topical.
  • Morthif
    Morthif Member Posts: 1,747 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I love everything about it.
    I have fun with Dragon PvP. Had a 20 min lol fest vs Draqoom that I somehow won. 
    Ernam
  • Saeva
    Saeva Member Posts: 1,947 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I do like dragon in groups for the tankiness and the hindering as well as escape abilities. Negating the need for a mount is great. As far as 1v1 I have not come to enjoy it. Always lesser for that. But, that isn't to say it's not viable 1v1, it's just much less versitile or comfortable for me than magi.


  • Caladbolg
    Caladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited October 2014
    My character is not a dragon.
    Personally, While I am not a dragon but I am convinced by Santar that Dragons major effectiveness isn't in it's pve strength or it's pvp strength, but how it compliments your lesser class. In other words what im trying to say is.

    If your lesser class is at a huge disadvantage vs another class switching to dragon is always an extra option.

    Or if your class sucks in group combat, you can always switch to dragon.

    Or if your class is awesome in pvp but sucks in pve you can.. always switch to dragon!

    I would totally be dragon if bashing wasn't something that made normal men fall asleep.

    Edit: Also on this note if multiclass works kinda like Dragon does.. then dragon can become obsolete easily.

    AlcinaeKaraiAradorErnam
  • Herenicus
    Herenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I only dragonform to gare out of crappy Annwyn exits, or to breathstream/bite in raids.
    I don't run into many people putting effort into roleplaying dragonform, ducking beneath low ceilings or otherwise acknowledging their size in rooms designed for humanoids. Cool dragon, bro.
  • Exelethril
    Exelethril Member Posts: 3,360 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    My character is not a dragon.
    The dragoncurse balance thingy aligns pretty nicely with a level 2 dirk(2 sec balance), pretty good for salve locking but also unreliable against rebounding.

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
  • Jovolo
    Jovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I love everything about it.
    Approach it like Bard without Minuet. Don't need to salve lock with it, if you're comfortable with the RNG approach of aff classes. Dragon with an artie dirk is like a Bard with better limb damage and insane defense. Still effective without, and importantly, very simplistic to fight with.
    Exelethril
  • Dunn
    Dunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,324 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I love everything about it.
    I have a level 2 dirk and a torc and locking with dragon is nicer than bard atm.


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