Limb Damage Changes

Caoimhaen

I am not very experienced in scripting and have been trying to fix the limb counter someone gave me a long time ago to match up with the new changes, but I am having a lot of trouble getting it right. Anyone have any tips on how limb counters work? I think I vaguely understand what is happening..in the case of the one I am using, it applies a number of points when you assess the person and each punch and kick is assigned a number of points. It then calculates how many kicks and punches it will take. My biggest problem is that when I change the variables for the amount of damage points per  punches and kicks, it can be right for one tier of people with say oh...6100-6700 health, but one hit off for those with higher health than that. I suppose what would help me is knowing the percentage of  how much damage was lost on each punch and kick when the changes were made. In any case..I am not sure any of you have pointers.. but any help would be appreciated. Thanks!:)

Bukariin

I'd first ask "which limb counter do you use?"

If you use the SVO counter and you only use punches (because you're sticking to bypass combos) then it's pretty simple, just set your punch damage to 1, break any one limb via bypass combos, count the number of hits that took, and SHN (player) (number of punches to break). 

If you are using the SVO counter and you use both punches and kicks, well, I haven't quite figured out the damage ratio of punches to kicks yet.  It used to be 5:2 and now it's closer to 5:3 n SCS or 5:4 in DRS.  So I can't help you there.

If you are using any other limb counter, you'd be best off posting a question in the appropriate thread in the Scripts section.

E: If you're using an ASSESS script to automatically fill in the points-to-break, then it's going to be broken because damage got nerfed.  I believe the dude to talk to about fixing your formula (not really your counter per-se) is Ernam.

Caoimhaen

Using Karai and Jacen's. And thank you.

Caoimhaen

Fixed it quite easily.Apparently all of the damage points for each punch and kick just needed to be reduced by 20%. Thanks for the advice

Jacen

That... scares me. The numbers I came up with were a roughly 19% reduction on punches and a 43% reduction on kicks... Gotta do more testing I guess

Bukariin

Well, I had no idea it was exactly 20% either, but it's hard to gauge that from a data set of eight dudes.

Also my damage formula wasn't accurate to begin with so it's not like that number would've helped tremendously.

Xer

Punch damage, I can see that possibly being true, a 20% reduction. Kick limb damage took a more drastic hit if I remember my old numbers correctly however. In fact, I'm fairly sure that Dragon stance punches with L3 knuckles preps faster than a Dragon stance kick right now (but only by just a hair. It's to the point where for all practical purposes, they're identical), which should indicate that kicks took a harder hit than just 20% reduction.

Jacen

Xer said:

Punch damage, I can see that possibly being true, a 20% reduction. Kick limb damage took a more drastic hit if I remember my old numbers correctly however. In fact, I'm fairly sure that Dragon stance punches with L3 knuckles preps faster than a Dragon stance kick right now (but only by just a hair. It's to the point where for all practical purposes, they're identical), which should indicate that kicks took a harder hit than just 20% reduction.

Yeah, this. My numbers say that the punch reduction is slightly less than 20% (and when has IRE used an even number in a formula anyways?) and with level 2 knuckles, my DRS kicks are just barely more powerful (roughly 2.2% more) than DRS punches. 

My kick damage reduction number is less accurate than the punch damage though. Right now I've got a 3.7% difference in kick damage, while only 1.3% difference in punch damage.

Bukariin

Yeah, I've noticed that, at most, it takes two more DRS punches than kicks to break a limb.

Not sure why the extreme nerf to kicks was necessary.

Xer

Permamangle with L3 knuckles sucks

Caoimhaen

Yeah...i found out in anarchaea my counter is a bit off...are kicks really nerfed that badly?

Bukariin

Caoimhaen said:

Yeah...i found out in anarchaea my counter is a bit off...are kicks really nerfed that badly?

Just to give you a comparison, pre-nerf, I could break somebody's leg with 4 kicks, and post-nerf, same person took 7 kicks.  SCS punches only went up from 9 to 11 on the same person.

Caoimhaen

Maybe thats why I am so off....so 20% and..43% ? I will try that. Thanks you guys

Rangor

Sounds like the logical solution would have been to change knuckles so that they didn't increase limb damage. Guess that woulda been a bitch to code though.

Ernam

That's... the entire point of knuckles.

Caoimhaen

Thanks a ton for the help! Got it fixed. You guys are a massive help.  

Edit:meant say more than what was posted at first and...zomg! 500th comment!

Rangor

Ernam said:

That's... the entire point of knuckles.

Point of knuckles is to increase damage. Increased limb damage is a very beneficial side effect.

Jovolo

Both were equally important facets of knuckles, tbf. The limb damage side sped up preps by around two punches (multiplied by the amount of limbs you prep, so significant) and also made it possible to mangle lock in SCS against Dragons. The damage meant the combos couldn't be out moss/sipped by anyone but those with outrageous blunt mitigation (basically Knights and Priests) making the mangle locks actually relevant. It also meant that AXK had the capability to do upwards of 100% health on ~4000 max hp and pretty close to that on anyone with higher max health.

The limb damage nerf realistically should have removed the mangle-locking aspect of Knuckles by removing the ability to break a limb in two combos, but I can't say, not having seen the numbers. The significant increase in prep time and the ability to sky rocket the damage on AXK are both equally good factors.

Jacen

Skyrocket Axk damage? You talking before the nerf or after?

Ernam

Either way, it makes no sense.

AXK is pointless - and knuckles don't make it a milisecond faster to perform, once a break chain is initiated (as in, once your opponent is prepped) - nor does it allow any more limb breaks than without knuckles (which would increase AXK damage).

Only impact knuckles have on AXK is causing the full AXK combo to do -slightly- more damage, due to increased punch damage after the AXK.

Jovolo

You get exactly the same benefit from knuckles toward AXK damage as you did prior to the AXK nerf.

Bukariin

Even Makarios said that AXK damage wasn't modified by the recent nerfs, though they were looking into it or something.  So technically a nerf to prep speed is a nerf to AXK, but it does the same damage post-nerf.

E: Raw damage, I mean - its limb damage to head was reduced, of course.

Rohai

Sorry for the forum necromancy, but does anyone have the new limb damage formula worked out to a good confidence interval? I'm still running into this pretty often:

SWK: Target Prone
HFP: Left leg 953.6/940 points
HFP: Right leg 953.6/940 points
-
Target stands up!

Ernam

Rohai said:

Sorry for the forum necromancy, but does anyone have the new limb damage formula worked out to a good confidence interval? I'm still running into this pretty often:

SWK: Target Prone
HFP: Left leg 953.6/940 points
HFP: Right leg 953.6/940 points
-
Target stands up!

I'm working with two monks who are furiously generating some spreadsheets for me to analyze (so I don't have to go monk).

It's possible that whatever magic numbers you're using are a good approximation, but if you're just using points-for-hits against some fraction of max health (just taking a guess there), you are only going to be accurate within a limited range, and that's assuming the ratios and stance/knuckle multipliers are correct.

One thing I can definitely tell you is that you should not assume that HP damage stance multipliers are the same as limb damage multipliers, for each stance.  You also shouldn't assume that knuckles do exactly what they say they do (although they may - I'll know soon).