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"Kill Your Darlings"

JhaeliJhaeli Member Posts: 541 @ - Epic Achaean
If you've never heard the phrase, "Kill Your Darlings" is a quote often touted in would-be writer circles that essentially means don't coddle your characters. Maim them, hurt them, allow bad things to happen (including death, although that doesn't apply here really). It means letting permanent, lasting, negative events happen that push your characters to new heights, etc.

Regardless of whether or not you appreciate the advice from a writer's point of view, it's an interesting concept to apply to your Achaean character. So I thought I'd open a discussion and see where it goes. Obviously, 'special snowflake syndrome' should be avoided and it doesn't all have to be motivated by Evil, but there's something to be said about adding some drama to your character's life by letting things happen to them.

1) Would you allow permanent, "negative" things to happen to your character? Orzaansyn recently had her eyes replaced by obsidian. Others, like Flair, have allowed their descriptions to "turn ugly" as part of their roleplay. 

2) Perhaps more importantly, do you require OOC consent for someone to do something permanent to your character? Or would you be open to going with the flow of the roleplay? I think, going forward, most people should make a point of acquiring consent before they do something significant, but I know that some people (like me) are open to going with the flow. 

3) How willing are you to propose or to do something negative to another character? Just killing a character or roleplaying a rivalry doesn't count here. There was a log on the forums of Stuneree being forced to pull his eye out of his head before he was allowed to return to Mhaldor, for example, which I don't think he was OOCly prepared for.


"Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to? You will never find that [everlasting] life for which you are looking. When the gods created man they allotted to him death, but life they retained in their own keeping. As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night, night and day, dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of man." 

BluefPraxidesSaevaSharaOrzaansynKeiChiamCaoimhaen
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Comments

  • NakariNakari Member Posts: 596 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I don't RP enough/well enough to really have the option to engage in any side of this, but I'm always a bit wary due to how hard it is for me to justify lasting scars and the like in Achaea. When you regularly go and get beaten, sliced, and impaled for days just to sip some more health potion and brush it off, I'm not really sure what would count as leaving a lasting mark. Obviously, there are justifications for it, but I've just never had an easy time buying into those.

    Nim
  • DaslinDaslin The place with the oxygenMember Posts: 2,492 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    1. Yep. There's only one person now who knows what the permanent thing is that's happened to Daslin, and still has an ongoing story, even if I've had to rp it alone before (I'm looking at you, @Shara, bb.) Along with a few other scars, the most notable being forearms, some do know what those are, and why they're negative.

    2. Nope. I really do prefer reacting in the moment, otherwise, it doesn't feel as... "real". If someone is worried about my reaction, they can ask, I don't mind. I just know that I prefer on-the-spot reaction.

    3. Can and have done. Honestly, I kinda miss the... "darker" side of Daslin. Now though... I think I'll have to wait for @Daeir to give a sermon and phase one room away. Snipe him, and snicker as I die. (I'll aim for your eardrum, bub!)
    JhaeliBluefHarmoniaShara
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Daslin: You gotta do more than just snipe. Emote it and I might!
  • DaslinDaslin The place with the oxygenMember Posts: 2,492 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Daeir What, you think I wouldn't -try- to emote before the Targossian mob wrecks me?
  • UlrikeUlrike MarylandMember Posts: 175 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Nakari said:
    I don't RP enough/well enough to really have the option to engage in any side of this, but I'm always a bit wary due to how hard it is for me to justify lasting scars and the like in Achaea. When you regularly go and get beaten, sliced, and impaled for days just to sip some more health potion and brush it off, I'm not really sure what would count as leaving a lasting mark. Obviously, there are justifications for it, but I've just never had an easy time buying into those.
    I always RP it according to the idea that scars and mutilations that don't fade (across body changes, healing, resurrection and the like) are the ones that marked your character's psyche as well as their body. So, if it's something important to your character, or a memorable hurt, it will stay.
    (Heh, I didn't see Jhaeli's later post before writing this. Same deal!)

    This explanation also offers an easy out to people who don't want to include alterations in their desc or RP. Things like RP branding or wounding (not uncommon in Mhaldor) don't need consent IMHO unless it's important to you that the subject plays along... and the people doing branding and wounding need to be mindful of the other's enjoyment.

    More involved rituals involving torture, sacrifice, active participation of the "victim", anything even remotely sexual, and so on should have OOC consent (or have been freely suggested by the victim IC).
    1) Would you allow permanent, "negative" things to happen to your character? Orzaansyn recently had her eyes replaced by obsidian. Others, like Flair, have allowed their descriptions to "turn ugly" as part of their roleplay.

    2) Perhaps more importantly, do you require OOC consent for someone to do something permanent to your character? Or would you be open to going with the flow of the roleplay? I think, going forward, most people should make a point of acquiring consent before they do something significant, but I know that some people (like me) are open to going with the flow. 

    3) How willing are you to propose or to do something negative to another character? Just killing a character or roleplaying a rivalry doesn't count here. There was a log on the forums of Stuneree being forced to pull his eye out of his head before he was allowed to return to Mhaldor, for example, which I don't think he was OOCly prepared for.
    1) Yes, I'm up for that. Have had this happen. It was enjoyable. Failure and pain are a lot of fun to roleplay when somebody else is actively working with you to make it interesting.
    2) see above
    3) Torture is fun! But again, see above.

    BluefPraxidesJhaeliHarmonia
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    We're essentially "lesser immortals", so while I can see how doing physical stuff is fun and interesting for people, I just don't see it that way - unless the Garden itself was involved somehow.  I say that, because we lack the actual power to do such lasting physical things to each other.  The most negative things that can happen to us are things that impinge on our ability to control the world around us (Achaea), either mechanically, or politically.  So, things like losing lots of XP, being shrubbed, having a disfavour, losing access to a skillset (sooooort of player controlled in some cases, but as we know, that really means Garden controlled), being negatively impacted by political struggles, etc... 
  • HarmoniaHarmonia Member Posts: 326 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    1. Yes, had it happen. As a siren though, we regain beauty after a few centuries.
    2. Yes and No. Sometimes things happen in game that you don't expect to happen and you have to play along and learn to deal with your own bullsh*t that you created. Agree with @Bluef here. There are novellas that could be written for many of us.
    3. Agree with @Ulrike here. Torture is fun.

    Since @Flair is the persona du jour, remember when Lady Selene kissed his boo-boo's away and he was handsome for a hot minute?
    “There is no greater sorrow than thinking back upon a happy time in misery--”





    BluefUlrikeJhaeli
  • TillieTillie VAMember Posts: 154 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited September 2014
    1) Would you allow permanent, "negative" things to happen to your character? Absolutely. I love stuff like this. Permanent scars or other wounds (as well as psychological scarring, as some have mentioned), brings such a depth that a perfectly content character simply cannot have sometimes. Not saying you can't roleplay extensively as someone without flaws or a flawed back story - but who the hell is actually like that? No one. 

    On sort of a side note, I always wondered what would happen if Tillie were to become permanently injured in some way, seeing as she's a dancer. She abandoned her life as a Blademaster to become a Bard, so the experience would be doubly negative. As was also mentioned, though, I feel it would be a bit too special snowflake-y, and wouldn't do it primarily because a)I don't like asking people to do things to my character, I'd rather let it just happen, and b) I would hate to annoy my housemates with it.  Though..it would probably just mean switching her art path, but still. -shrug-

    2) Perhaps more importantly, do you require OOC consent for someone to do something permanent to your character? For most things, I absolutely love seeing what spontaneously occurs - and permanently remains - from a roleplaying encounter. That's what makes them so much fun. Of course, I've mentioned in the one thread about making roleplay more consistent and such that there are benefits to discussing some ideas beforehand: mainly, as @Jurixe mentioned, things that are extremely life-altering and significant...but rarely do I find myself refusing to play something out. I love to see where others ideas go, and how they will affect my own roleplaying experiences.

    3) How willing are you to propose or to do something negative to another character? Tillie can get angry- but very rarely does it come out. I would be totally willing to have her lash out, or create another negative experience for another character....but, currently,she has no real 'hatred' towards anyone for any one reason. It takes a lot to rile her up, as she is normally a curious and calm sort. 

    I would like to make such an instance as natural as humanely possible for both sides...but, as above, if it were to be something very life-altering, I would be sure to communicate at least a bit OOCly  before carrying it out.
    UlrikeBluefHarmoniaJhaeli
  • KeiKei Member Posts: 327 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    1) Emphatically yes, Kei doesn't have enough scars, damnit.
    2) Don't ask for me, even if I'll often ask what people are comfortable typing out over glossing over with a single emote.
    3) I'd love to revel in Kei's horribly scarred psyche, and give as well as receive.

    Bydar, a garish-looking trader says, "I'm not a man, I'm an experience."
    UlrikeBluefHarmoniaJhaeli
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    ^Exactly my thoughts, but way funnier.  
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    1) Definitely, even including things that cost RL money sometimes (like class changes for example).

    2) It depends. There are people I'd trust enough (either trusting them personally or just trusting that they're good roleplayers) to force changes on my characters without any warning. Outside of those people, I'd generally prefer IC warning rather than asking OOC for consent. Before doing something huge and permanent, try to hint at what you intend to do, and ideally leave a way out in case it's something I'm just not comfortable with. Certain things pretty much have to be arranged OOC though, for practical reasons.

    3) I'd generally be pretty hesitant to cause something permanently negative like that myself, largely because I'd be worried that everyone else will just find it stupid and ignore it. I don't have much confidence in my roleplaying or my ability to pull it off well.
    SilasJhaeli
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:
    1) Definitely, even including things that cost RL money sometimes (like class changes for example).

    2) It depends. There are people I'd trust enough (either trusting them personally or just trusting that they're good roleplayers) to force changes on my characters without any warning. Outside of those people, I'd generally prefer IC warning rather than asking OOC for consent. Before doing something huge and permanent, try to hint at what you intend to do, and ideally leave a way out in case it's something I'm just not comfortable with. Certain things pretty much have to be arranged OOC though, for practical reasons.

    3) I'd generally be pretty hesitant to cause something permanently negative like that myself, largely because I'd be worried that everyone else will just find it stupid and ignore it. I don't have much confidence in my roleplaying or my ability to pull it off well.

    I didn't even think about mandated class changes. Good point, @Sena. When you start instigating those kinds of negative situations (and by instigating I mean the person doesn't see this coming, isn't genuinely deserving of it, or has been actively trying to resolve the issues standing in their way), I think you really do need to take the person's ability to go along with things into account. Not everyone can afford to class change on a whim. 
    NimJhaeli
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Also, I'd noticed sometime a bit back that Jhaeli's name is pink  :'(  


    TrillianaJhaeli
  • KerriaKerria The Red LionessMember Posts: 1,120 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    1) yes. kerria already has some mental scarring from some one of her past relationships that causes her to be very withdrawn from people in general. It's not much but it has affected her.

    2)yes and no. If the permanent follows a  sensible storyline than sure. Like, for instance, a scar or brand. No if it's a sexual toned or otherwise life altering. Removal of wings would be permissible (if she was atavian), but say, something like he's going to tear my legs off so I have to walk on my hands or perm injuring the body in such a way no further children can be had will be a "no I want to think this over" kind of thing.

    3) again, yes and no. Will I be okay with it? How will this affect Kerria, will -she- be okay with it. Kerria is training for battle, but overall is a total sweetheart. This would likely go against her unless she was put into the proper situation.


    I note that Kerria started out designed with a very specific scar. The scar was questioned by older characters and I was told it was not proper or informed that mending/epidermal would of fixed it so there's no reason for it.

    eventually I changed it to a tattoo, and even then it was "you know your pack/cloak/blouse/armour/x would cover that thing up" I ended up giving up on it all together, even though it could very well lead to interesting rp.

    Having other tell you that your flaw can and should be fixed because they think so is a huge damper on rp.
    TrillianaJhaeli
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 316 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Kerria said:

    eventually I changed it to a tattoo, and even then it was "you know your pack/cloak/blouse/armour/x would cover that thing up" I ended up giving up on it all together, even though it could very well lead to interesting rp.
    Athelas has a scar on his right arm, from a wound he received at the age of five, none but himself know about it, because he hides it under either a moss or a moon tattoo, depending on what he needs at the time.

    He walks Achaea with an almost terminal fear of Sirens, as he has had several very bad situations involving sirens. No, get your head out of the gutter, not that kind of situation. He is intelligent enough to know that it's not a trait of the race, but rather a string of bad luck. Getting his heart ripped out and handed back to him by a Siren, is almost a central theme in his existence though, and yes, that is complete coincidental RP. As a result, he politely avoids Sirens for the most part. His house leader being a Siren, made for interesting internal conflict.

    Psychologically he is a bit broken, witnessing the death of each of your family members in separate incidents, will have that effect on one. He also has a bit of difficulty distinguishing between being a human and being a tree, as he perceives himself as being both.

    All the above boils down to: Bad shit happening to your character, does not have to be visible and/or advertised.

    I once had the pleasure of playing in a D&D game, where one of the characters became an eunuch through no choice of his own. It was the kind of thing that would never really effect the character in anything but an RP way, it also caused a sub-plot to the whole story, where the character saved gold and treasure to pay for the services at a remote temple, where they specialized in the re-growth of appendages.

    It's often the invisible things, that lead to the most interesting RP.
    BluefJhaeli
  • JurixeJurixe Where you least expect itMember Posts: 1,668 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Athelas said:

    It's often the invisible things, that lead to the most interesting RP.
    This is very true. It can be quite satisfying to consciously steer how your character reacts to a certain situation based on a modifying factor that only you know of, even if no one else ever finds out what it is. I find playing weaknesses, in particular, to be very interesting - determining how much to reveal, how far to let it go, and thinking about what precisely would trigger it.
    If you like my stories, you can find them here:
    Stories by Jurixe and Stories by Jurixe 2 

    MelodieSenaUlrikeJhaeli
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